.TL
Minutes of CSPC Meeting # 38
.br
Held in room 433 at 1:30pm,
.br
Wednesday 20th November 1991
.AU
Minutes taken by Duncan C. White
.SH
38.1.1 : Those Present:
.LP
MSS, SE, DJH, TJS, JIM, YAC, CLH, DCW, RB, DFG
.SH
38.1.2 : Also Sent To:
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MML, GLB, SFG, DKB, MRC, SCD, EAA, TMP, KB, SMC, CJH,
JCP, Angela Ragoopath, SM, FGM, FS, MJS, KAH, GBT, Susie Daniels, 
FHL, IU, DD, IH, SJL
.SH
38.1.3 : Minutes of the Previous Meeting
.LP
Amazingly, there were no corrections!
The minutes were accepted.
.SH
38.2 : Matters Arising
.SH
38.2.1 : PhD Requests
.LP
Re: 37.2.3,
CLH said that he had been talking with
the PhD student representatives,
to make sure that PhD students knew they could request
equipment such as Mac LCs, X terminals etc.
.SH
38.2.2 : Manny Lehmann (MML)
.LP
Re: 37.3, MSS reported that he has talked again to MML,
who may still go ahead and purchase a small amount of equipment
from Frank Sketch of TVS.
.SH
38.2.3 : Geoff Burn (GLB)
.LP
Re: 37.4.1,
MSS reported that GLB has been given his 1200 pounds,
and, in fact, GLB's SPARC workstation has just arrived.
.SH
38.2.4 : Steve Goddard (SFG)
.LP
Re: 37.4.9,
DCW said SFG had asked him to make it clear that
SFG intends to migrate entirely from Mac to PC,
when he has all his Windows software.
He already has
.I "Microsoft Excel"
and
.I "the Norton Desktop,"
so is only awaiting
.I "Microsoft Word For Windows."
Hence, he will be returning his Mac Plus to the pool shortly.
.SH
38.2.5 : Laser Printer for TAs
.LP
Re: 37.6.2,
JIM said that the HP laserprinter for the TAs hasn't been ordered yet,
because he is trying to get the best deal.
SE suggested that it should be ordered rapidly.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.SH
38.2.6 : Equipment for Dave Bannister (DKB)
.LP
Re: 37.6.3,
SE pointed out that DKB needs to be able to run Cadence,
which doesn't (yet) run under X windows.*
.FS
.IP "*"
Later, we discussed the possibility of making a temporary loan of a
mono X terminal to DKB.
.FE
.SH
38.2.7 : Recipients of Mac LCs
.LP
MRC, SCD, EAA, TMP all have their Mac LCs.
.LP
KB doesn't yet.
.LP
The Hardware Support Group (HSG) are keeping the Mac LC
they have previously been loaned.
.LP
SMC has his Mac LC, and it has been agreed that he will keep his Mac Plus
for the WPL Systems Lab.
.SH
38.3 : Equipment Requests
.SH
38.3.1 : Chris Hogger (CJH)
.LP
CJH submitted a request for an Apple Laserwriter II (cost: 2300 pounds)
for ALR research students in the WPL.
The ALR section are prepared to contribute 1500 pounds,
if CSPC will top it up (extra cost: about 800 pounds).
Such a printer would be located in the PhD room in the WPL,
for general access.
.LP
JIM added that there is one Laserwriter already available for research
students in room 558B Huxley.
MSS added that it seemed reasonable that there be one in the WPL, too.
There was a brief discussion about which model (
.I "II f"
or
.I "g"
) should be purchased,
and what connectivity there should be to it (LocalTalk, Ethernet and serial
line being the available options).
.LP
This concluded with an agreement in principle to provide the additional
funding, with JIM needing to investigate the exact configuration,
connectivity and pricing.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.SH
38.3.2 : Jill Payne (JCP)
.LP
JCP had put forward a request that Angela Ragoopath's (AR) elderly Mac Plus
be upgraded to a Mac LC for spreadsheets.
MSS made a brief suggestion that more memory might be a (cheaper) viable
alternative, but DCW pointed out that LC's are fast becoming the norm,
no other upgrade request has been refused, and that we still have some in
stock!
.LP
The request was agreed.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.SH
38.3.3 : JIM
.LP
JIM had requested an Apple Mac PowerBook 140, cost 1500 pounds.
.LP
JIM said that he thought it important to bring this request forward to CSPC,
as portables have not been allocated yet.
As manager of CSG, he said, he needed up to date equipment.
He added that, of the 63K allocated to CSG last year, he had only spent half.
He explained that a portable Mac would enable him to deal with routine
correspondence etc while travelling into/home from work, time which is
otherwise idle.
He also added that he provided backup Macintosh support,
and a Macintosh portable would increase his effecitiveness at this.
.LP
MSS opened the discussion by saying that the Apple Powerbook machines
are extremely desirable,
and that several research sections were already considering purchasing some.
.LP
He asked for comments:
.LP
SE said she was concerned with JIM's proposed method of purchasing such a
machine, via the CSG training fund and profits on selling consumables,
since neither are supposed to be for purchasing equipment.
.LP
She queried how much money there was in the training fund,
why so little of it had been spent on its stated purpose,
and whether CSG staff were aware of it's existence.
JIM said there had been 3 tranches of money over the last three years:
1000, 3000 and 4000 pounds.
He agreed that it was a matter for concern that so little had been spent.
.LP
TJS stated that he and other members of CSG had only been informed of the
first tranche, (approx 300 pounds per section),
and that the low takeup was due to the fact that many commercial courses
(even single day ones) cost several hundred pounds,
considerably more than the entire 300 pounds/section.
.LP
He said that he was very concerned that CSG staff had not been
informed of the additional money,
and wondered if this had contributed to JIM managing to spend only
half what CSG were allocated last year.
He added that he had been asked by other members of CSG to oppose
any proposal to divert training funds to fund this purchase.
.LP
DJH agreed that this sounded like improper use of funds.
.LP
DCW suggested that we ignore JIM's financial suggestions,
and consider the request simply as a normal, CSPC funded, request..
.LP
DCW said that JIM could undoubtedly
make good use of a portable machine,
but then many staff could make just as good use of portable
or home equipment provided by the Department.
Such staff (himself included) have, up to now, thought that this type of
equipment could not be requested through CSPC,
and have therefore purchased their own,
either through research funds (if available) or their own money.
.LP
He asked if the Department can afford to start providing portables for staff?
They would undoubtedly be very useful, and he (DCW) would certainly be
able to make good use of one!
.LP
RB added that JIM should realise that this request was controversial due
primarily to the fact that portables have never been allocated out of CSPC
funds yet.
He suggested that in a couple of years, allocating portables may be
commonplace, and completely uncontroversial.
.LP
SE queried JIM's statement about providing backup Mac support,
saying he is surely not responsible for technical backup,
but rather is responsible for
.I "managing"
all CSG's sections.
She suggested that he does not need a portable Mac for that reason.
.LP
SE went on to say that, thus far, CSPC has never officially allocated a
second machine to someone,
and asked JIM exactly what equipment he has already.
He replied that he had:
.IP "1)."
A Mac II CX on his desk, purchased by the Dept when he took the post of
CSG manager.
.IP "2)."
An X terminal (also on his desk), donated to him by a firm.
He offered to provide additional details about the donation
if anyone needed them.
.IP "3)."
A Mac Plus at home, donated from MSS's section.
.IP "4)."
An old IBM PC AT.
.LP
SE said that this seemed like a lot of equipment already,
.LP
TJS added that he and other members of CSG perceived JIM as being
rather over eager to grab additional personal computing facilities.
.LP
RB pointed out that many staff (such as himself) have no equipment allocated
to them from Departmental funds.
If such a person were to request a single piece of equipment that
happened to be portable, that might be reasonable.
But from JIM's list above, he clearly has considerable equipment already,
some of it from Departmental funds.
.LP
MSS added that this discussion has identified a
clear need for portable machines for
.I "many"
staff,
which CSPC may have to address in the near future,
but that funding such purchases out of CSPC funds appeared to be a problem.
He pointed out that CSG raise external funds and revenues, and JIM is
instrumental in that.
.LP
We concluded that this was an unacceptable request at present,
and turned it down,
whether funded from CSG or CSPC funds.
.LP
JIM accepted this decision,
but added that he might seek to obtain a PowerBook
by doing some work for an external company.
He added that this might reduce the amount of time he was able
to put into the job, and thus his effectiveness,
and that CSPC would have to accept this.
.SH
38.3.4 : Stuart McRobert (SM)
.LP
SM had requested some network management software, cost 500 pounds.
JIM and TJS both said that this software would be extremely useful in order
to track down faults and improve network performance.
.LP
This request was agreed.
.BX "Action: JIM/SM"
.SH
38.3.5 : MSS
.LP
MSS had suggested that a Mac tape backup unit be purchased, at a cost of
about 700 pounds.
.LP
JIM pointed out that it was already possible to backup Mac/PC hard disks to
Unix, and then rely on the regular Unix backup.
RB responded that not everyone would like this,
since much of the desire for personal machines such as Macs was
in order to get away from larger systems like Unix machines.
.LP
We discussed the tape backup unit briefly and decided that
it would be very useful,
kept downstairs at CSG,
booked out by any Mac user from the Dept for an hour or so,
used to backup a hard disk, and then returned.
(The user would keep the tape with their backup on -
these are fairly inexpensive).
.LP
This was agreed.
.BX "Action: JIM/MSS"
.SH
38.3.6 : Frank McCabe et al
.LP
Frank McCabe (FGM), Fariba Sadri (FS) and Marek Sergot (MJS)
had requested a laserprinter.
There was a feeling that they should be prepared to put some money in,
in a similar fashion to Chris Hogger's proposal above,
since their research section has reasonable levels of funding.
It was left that JIM should discuss this with Kim Harrison (KAH)
to see what is needed and what assistance could be given.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.SH
38.3.7 : Graham Benyon-Tinker (GBT)
.LP
GBT had requested a Mac and a personal laser printer,
for use both for preparing slides and for printing Cadence
output.
.LP
MSS reminded the committee that GBT already has a Mac Plus
and a colour Sun 3/60 (VLSI) for his Cadence work,
and that there are already several Mac laserprinters on Level 4 that are
reachable from both Macs and Unix.
.LP
It was suggested that upgrading GBT's Mac Plus with a hard disk and
additional memory might be a more sensible solution.
.LP
It was agreed that JIM and MSS should investigate GBT's requirements,
but that in general a member of staff cannot expect to have a laserwriter
in their own office, when they already have shared access to one.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM/MSS"
.SH
38.3.8 : Tim Sadler (TJS)
.LP
TJS reminded the committee that his and Amanda's (AHP) proposal
for a scanner had been held over for further discussion,
and had not been discussed again!
.LP
JIM reminded everyone that the complete system
(Mac II, scanner and scanning/OCR software)
would cost about 4K.
RB pointed out it was difficult to show in advance how much use a scanner
would get -
he suggested that many people might find it useful if it was there!
He proposed that we should purchase the scanner and the software first,
(at a cost of 1500 pounds)
and connect it to a less powerful Mac, initially.
Then, if it proved to be in heavy demand and was not fast enough,
a more powerful machine could be purchased.
.LP
JIM replied that the scanner would probably be unusable on a machine
less powerful than a Mac II.
MSS added that an SE/30 might be an adequate machine,
and mentioned that Susie Daniels was looking to replace her SE/30
with a Mac LC.
.LP
After a brief discussion, it was agreed
to replace Susie's SE/30 with an LC,
purchase the scanner and software alone,
and use the SE/30 to drive the scanner.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.SH
Francois Leveque (FHL)
.LP
SE reminded the committee that two 2nd year Ingres laboratory
exercises would be run on fulmar next term,
and that FHL suspected the disks might not be up to the load.
.LP
MSS pointed out that 1.5K has already been allocated as a contingency
fund for upgrading fulmar, should it's performance be inadequate.
.LP
DCW added that FHL was intending to round up a large number of TAs to run
some performance tests on Ingres in the near future, in order to establish
better how fast (or slow) the machine might go under substantial load.
.LP
.BX "Action: FHL"
.SH
38.4 : Research Student Equipment
.LP
JIM said he had 13 requests from research students, mainly for Macs.
CLH added that he had received two requests for X terminals
from the two part time TAs,
Irek Ulidowski (IU) and Demetrius Dracopoulos (DD),
which should be passed on to JIM shortly.
YAC queried whether it would be okay for someone to request an X terminal
from CSPC if it were to be connected to a research group's machine.
MSS confirmed that this would be fine.
.LP
In order to meet the demand for X terminals, MSS proposed to purchase six
refurbished mono Sun 3/60s from Sun, as discussed in the last meeting,
costing 600 pounds each.
JIM suggested that one be held back for spare parts or immediate replacement
of a broken machine, and added that there may be a cheaper maintenance deal
available from Sun, involving one maintenance visit a month.
This (coupled with the availability of a spare) could be appropriate for
this situation,
since these machines are not as critical as the teaching services.
.LP
SE suggested that one of these could be loaned to DKB.
.LP
It was agreed to purchase six, cost 3600 pounds, investigate maintenance,
and to allocate one temporarily to DKB.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.LP
MSS then said it was not clear at present whether there was a need for a
server to support research students.
.LP
He added that the Dept already has to provide facilities to research students
without section resources, typically on Swan,
but also on the SPARC lab machines.
In response from TJS, he added that this would be done by a Head of Section
specifically requesting that CSG provide access to Swan or the SPARC lab for
particular students.
JIM added that it may be necessary to upgrade Swan if additional research
students are to move onto it - it is already running short of disk space.
.LP
In the absence of any clear need, it was agreed to leave this over for
further discussion in future meetings.
.SH
38.5 : Mac Lab replacement
.LP
Copies of Steve Goddard's (SFG) proposal for a lab of PCs to replace the
Mac Lab were handed out.
RB requested that we hold this discussion over until the next meeting,
as we had taken rather a long time before this.
.SH
38.6 : Staff Laserwriter upgrades
.LP
MSS pointed out that many of the staff Laserwriters,
especially those belonging to secretaries on level 4,
are getting rather old and will need replacing soon.
A brief discussion of what printers there are at present was brought to an
end by RB suggesting that a complete list would be a useful starting point.
JIM agreed to produce such a list.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.SH
38.7 : Any Other Business
.LP
RB queried about the progress towards Mac Imagewriter print spooling via Unix,
that had been unavoidably delayed for three years, and was now promised
imminently.
JIM reported that printing plain text files works, but printing bitmap images
still suffers from some kind of hardware flow control problem.
He added that it was top priority, and that Ian Harries (IH), Trevor Peacock
(TMP) and Steve Lacey (SJL) were all working full time on it.
He suggested that RB come and discuss it with him on the following Monday.
.LP
.BX "Action: JIM"
.LP
RB added that the strategy of having directly connected ``printing macs'' is not
really working, as users are managing to modify the print settings.
.SH
38.7 : Date of Next Meeting
.LP
Wednesday 8th January 1992, 12:30 in 433.
.LP
MSS pointed out that there is a staff meeting starting at 2pm,
so we will need to finish before that, hence the early starting time.