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Minutes of CSPC Meeting # 39
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Held in room 433 at 12:30pm,
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Wednesday 8th January 1992
in Room 433
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Minutes taken by Duncan C. White
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39.1.1 : Those Present
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MSS, CLH, JIM, TJS, DCW, DJH, DFG
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39.1.2 : Apologies From
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SE, RB
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39.1.3 : Also Sent To:
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MML, FGM, FS, EBH, GBT,
SFG, SM, LMJM, IH,
JCP, Angela Ragoopath,
DD, DKB, DDS,
MHG, PSC,
Rob Miller/Murray Shanahan.
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39.1.4 : Review of Minutes of the Previous Meeting
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There were no corrections.
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39.2 : Matters Arising
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39.2.1 : Manny Lehmann (MML)
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Re: 37.3 and 38.2.2, MSS reported that MML 
is now willing to go along with Departmental policy in his
purchase of Macintosh equipment.
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39.2.2 : TAs Laser Printer
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Re: 37.6.2 and 38.2.5,
JIM reported that the laser printer for TAs has now been ordered,
and is expected soon.
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39.2.3 : Angela Ragoopath's Mac LC (requested by JCP)
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Re: 38.3.2,
JIM reported that Angela now has a new Mac LC.
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39.2.4 : Network Software (requested by SM)
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Re: 38.3.4,
JIM reported that this network management software
has been ordered by SM.
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39.2.5 : Laser printer for Frank McCabe (FGM) et al.
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Re: 38.3.6,
MSS reported that FGM and company have gone ahead with purchasing
a laserprinter.
In fact, they paid the full cost - the Department paid nothing, but
gave assistance.
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39.2.6 : Scanner (requested by TJS)
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Re: 38.3.8,
JIM reported that the scanner is now on order.
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39.2.7 : Staff Laserwriters
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Re: 38.6,
JIM presented the most up-to-date list of staff laserwriters he could find,
with the warning that it is extremely difficult to keep track of them,
so the list is unlikely to be totally accurate.
There are at least 10 old laserwriters around.
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39.2.8 : Mac Lab print spooling
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Re: 38.7,
JIM reported that the Mac Lab Imgewriter print spooling was now working
reliably,
and added that he had discussed it with RB, who is now happy.
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39.2.9 : X terminals for Research Students
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Re: 38.4, JIM reported that the six refurbished mono Sun 3/60s
had arrived,
and are now being tested,
but some cables are missing.
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39.3 : Requests for Equipment:
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39.3.1 : PC for Library
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Ellen Haigh (EBH) has requested a PC with 17" screen and a printer,
to be used for preparing the Departmental database of publications.
All Departments are preparing these, and the College has standardised
on a setup.
The setup suggested will cost about 2300 pounds, although some details
remain unclear.
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It was agreed to go ahead.
.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.2 Software requested by Steve Goddard (SFG)
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SFG had presented a list of Windows software required for the PC Lab machines.
This included about 10-12 copies of Word for Windows (depending on the price),
and 1 copy of Clipper 5, at a cost of 100 pounds
(needed urgently for a student project).
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These were agreed.
.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.3 Windows software requested by Mike Gera (MHG) and Peter Cutler (PSC).
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MHG and PSC had requested a list of software for their
PC-based X-terminals, having decided to fully utilize them as PCs.
The software requested was:
.TS
center allbox;
l l l l l.
Priority	Software	MHG	PSC	One-off Cost
=
1	MicroSoft Windows 3.0	1	1	35
1	PC NFS	1	1	25
1	eXceed/W*	1	1	35
1	Word for Windows	1	1	30
2	Superbase 4	1	-	100
2	Borland C++ 3.0	1	1	110
3	Excel 3.0	1	1	50
3	Corel Draw/Designer	1	-	150
.TE
.FS
.IP "*"
Windows-based X server.
.FE
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It was agreed that all the priority 1 items on this list should be
purchased - ie. 2 copies of Windows, PC-NFS, eXceed and Word for Windows.
It was felt that the basics should be provided first,
with any extra software being provided as and when it becomes essential.
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.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.3 Unix for PCs requested by Lee McLoughlin (LMJM)
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LMJM had requested that we purchase the 386-BSD sources, price
625 pounds + VAT for a site licence, and 
email support for one year at 325 pounds + VAT.
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DCW suggested that it would be very useful to have Unix sources available
for projects - such as investigating paging and virtual memory algorithms.
He added that such projects are not currently being proposed due to the
lack of such a facility!
DJH agreed that there might well be such projects, given the availability of
sources.
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MSS suggested it might provide additional flexibility: allowing us to consider
running Unix on some PCs, thus giving us an alternate route to X windows!
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However, it was felt that the cost of email support was unreasonable - at over
half the price of the full sources!
It was therefore agreed to purchase the 386-BSD sources only.
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.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.4 : Research Student Equipment
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39.3.4.1 : Mac LCs
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JIM reminded the committee that 2 Mac LCs are still unallocated.
One has been requested for Rob Miller
(the request was made via Murray Shanahan).
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This was agreed.
.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.4.2 : Additional X Terminals for Research Students
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JIM said that David Bannister (DKB), Demetrius Dracopoulos (DD),
and Didi Spinellis (DDS) have been allocated X terminals** (3 of the 6 second
hand Suns ordered for use as X terminals).
.FS
.IP "**"
Temporarily, in the case of DKB.
.FE
JIM reminded the committee that it had been agreed to hold one for spares,
which leaves two free to allocate.
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MSS and DFG suggested that we do not wait for individual requests for these
machines, but rather place one in room 558A immediately, and the other in
the WPL soon.
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MSS suggested that a reasonable goal is at least one per ten research students,
and added that more X terminals will be needed.
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No immediate decision to purchase more was made, however.
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39.3.4.3 : Server for WPL
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DFG reported that he is currently attempting to use some of the overheads his
section has, which is a substantial amount - about 85k - to purchase a Unix
server for the WPL.
He added that this will be available to everyone in WPL who needs access.
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He reported that there was some delay in getting funds, and wondered if CSPC
could help by forespending the money, given that the money will be returned?
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This was agreed.
.BX "Action: MSS/DFG"
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39.3.5 : Printer for Graham Benyon Tinker (GBT)
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The Committee welcomed GBT who attended specially to explain the background
to his recent requests.
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GBT started by explaining the current situation with regard to the Cadence
VLSI design software:
we have 5 licences on the colour Sun3s, and another 10
licences on the colour Sparcs (the Oaks).
Thus we have 15 seats now.
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Via the Eurochip Consortium, the Department has spent 3k and has got 1.5
million pounds worth of software (at full commercial prices).
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He added that Cadence does not yet run under X Windows, but that an X-based
release of Cadence is imminent - sometime this summer - and will be a free
upgrade for our existing 15 seats.
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An X version of MentaGraphics (the main rival to Cadence) is available now,
with a CASE environment built in.
Peter Cheung of Elec Eng is negotiating a site licence for SPARCs,
which will cost about 5K (full price would be 10K).
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Elec Eng would like to split the site licence cost with us,
ie. costing the Department 2.5k.
GBT suggested that we might consider spending 500 pounds to evaluate the
MentaGraphics package.
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GBT then said that the problem with all this is that the
small number of Academic staff (especially GBT)
and TAs (especially DKB) who are responsible for
supporting such software need to be able to run the
software from their offices.
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He added that the University of London VLSI Consortium kit (VLSI and VLSI02)
will come back to the Department in April, and when this happens DKB will
be given VLSI02, at no cost to the Department.
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At present, GBT has a 2.5MB floppy only Macintosh purchased from research funds,
and the VLSI colour Sun 3/60.
He runs Cadence on VLSI, producing PostScript plots on a shared laserwriter
on level 4, and prepares lecture notes and slides on his Mac, incorporating
the plots into his notes either by physical cutting and pasting,
or by putting the paper through the laserprinter twice.
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GBT said that his requirements are:
a personal laserwriter to do Cadence plots,
especially on transparencies,
and a bigger Mac to make lecture notes and slides.
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A brief discussion ensued, centering around what would be the most
appropriate way to meet these needs.
It was felt that there had to be a better way of incorporating PostScript
Cadence plots into Mac documents - perhaps by using Encapsulated PostScript.
GBT agreed to investigate this.
JIM mentioned that the recently ordered InterLeaf word processor on the
Suns would provide an alternative way of incorporating the figures into
a word processor document, without needing to transfer the postscript output
from Unix to a Mac.
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The decision was: to upgrade GBT's Mac to 4MB memory and a 40MB hard disk,
and to purchase 2 new Laserwriters out of the funds already allocated for
Staff Laserwriter replacements (These cost 2300 pounds each).
Then GBT can borrow one from those in the machine room,
with the proviso that he return it when it is needed - at times of peak
wordprocessing use, ie. at the end of group and individual projects.
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The 2nd laserwriter could be given to Linden, who needs a new one.
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.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.6 : Spare Hard Disk in Hardware workshop
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JIM said that a spare hard disk would be extremely useful,
since this could improve turnaround when a machine dies.
It would cost about 300 pounds.
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This was agreed.
.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.7 : Andrew Filing System (AFS)
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JIM reported that CSG accepted equipment from Sun on the basis that
they would evaluate AFS for Sun.
However, a dispute has arisen as to who was supposed to purchase AFS itself.
Sun claim that they provided 100K of kit,
and it's up to us to purchase AFS.
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CSG did manage to get hold of AFS for a fortnight in the summer,
and did a partial evaluation.
JIM reported that he had severe doubts about it's efficiency.
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JIM added that the College are proposing to adopt AFS for College 
wide use in the near future,
so it may therefore be useful to evaluate it in advance.
Also, we may be the only Department choosing Sun SPARC machines
with Computer Board money, so we may have to purchase AFS for
our architecture!
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JIM said that AFS costs 3k for an evaluation licence
for just 3 machines.
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MSS said that this was unacceptably high - especially just for an evaluation
copy on 3 machines - and added that he could not believe the College would go
ahead with purchasing AFS if it is this expensive.
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Others agreed, so we decided that the Department will not purchase it
at that price.
JIM is to attempt to persuade Sun to purchase any evaluation copies for CSG to
evaluate, or alternatively to see if a much better price can be negotiated.
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.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.3.8 Unix Machine for Student Kernel hacking
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Some students had requested a Unix machine in order to become familiar with
systems work and managing a system,
with the thought of even making modifications to the Kernel.
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This follows on from the previous student machine, Styx, an old Sun 2,
that operated for over a year, but is now defunct.
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MSS pointed out that the above decision to purchase 386-BSD source code
could go some way towards meeting this need,
if a 386 PC could be found for this purpose.
JIM and TJS both thought there was an elderly but operational 386 PC
that was surplus to requirements, and JIM agreed to chase it up.
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.BX "Action: JIM"
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39.5 : Any Other Business
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DCW said that he had been discussing the Mac Lab replacement
with Ian Harries (IH),
who is concerned at the delay in deciding on what kind of machines will
replace the existing Macs.
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MSS suggested that we need a special CSPC meeting to discuss this,
in about a fortnight.  The exact date is to be decided by email.
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39.6 : Date of Next Meeting
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No date was set for the next meeting.
This will be decided by email also.