The Republic by Plato

Plato BOOK I

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[BOOK I] [5] Socrates, who is the narrator.
[BOOK I] [21] The scene is laid in the house of Cephalus at the Piraeus; and the whole
[BOOK I] [22] dialogue is narrated by Socrates the day after it actually took place to
[BOOK I] [41] There he is, said the youth, coming after you, if you will only wait.
[BOOK I] [71] With horses! I replied: That is a novelty. Will horsemen carry torches
[BOOK I] [97] away, the greater to me is the pleasure and charm of conversation. Do not
[BOOK I] [101] I replied: There is nothing which for my part I like better, Cephalus,
[BOOK I] [104] whether the way is smooth and easy, or rugged and difficult. And this is a
[BOOK I] [106] which the poets call the 'threshold of old age'--Is life harder towards the
[BOOK I] [109] I will tell you, Socrates, he said, what my own feeling is. Men of my age
[BOOK I] [111] our meetings the tale of my acquaintance commonly is --I cannot eat, I
[BOOK I] [113] good time once, but now that is gone, and life is no longer life. Some
[BOOK I] [115] tell you sadly of how many evils their old age is the cause. But to me,
[BOOK I] [116] Socrates, these complainers seem to blame that which is not really in
[BOOK I] [118] man, would have felt as they do. But this is not my own experience, nor
[BOOK I] [127] grasp not of one mad master only, but of many. The truth is, Socrates,
[BOOK I] [129] attributed to the same cause, which is not old age, but men's characters
[BOOK I] [130] and tempers; for he who is of a calm and happy nature will hardly feel the
[BOOK I] [131] pressure of age, but to him who is of an opposite disposition youth and age
[BOOK I] [138] are rich, and wealth is well known to be a great comforter.
[BOOK I] [140] You are right, he replied; they are not convinced: and there is something
[BOOK I] [156] father Lysanias reduced the property below what it is at present: and I
[BOOK I] [161] are indifferent about money, which is a characteristic rather of those who
[BOOK I] [166] profit which is common to them and all men. And hence they are very bad
[BOOK I] [169] That is true, he said.
[BOOK I] [171] Yes, that is very true, but may I ask another question?--What do you
[BOOK I] [178] a world below and the punishment which is exacted there of deeds done here
[BOOK I] [179] were once a laughing matter to him, but now he is tormented with the
[BOOK I] [181] he is now drawing nearer to that other place, he has a clearer view of
[BOOK I] [184] finds that the sum of his transgressions is great he will many a time like
[BOOK I] [185] a child start up in his sleep for fear, and he is filled with dark
[BOOK I] [186] forebodings. But to him who is conscious of no sin, sweet hope, as Pindar
[BOOK I] [187] charmingly says, is the kind nurse of his age:
[BOOK I] [190] holiness, and is the nurse of his age and the companion of his journey;--
[BOOK I] [191] hope which is mightiest to sway the restless soul of man.'
[BOOK I] [194] say to every man, but to a good man, is, that he has had no occasion to
[BOOK I] [196] when he departs to the world below he is not in any apprehension about
[BOOK I] [200] wealth has to give, to a man of sense this is in my opinion the greatest.
[BOOK I] [202] Well said, Cephalus, I replied; but as concerning justice, what is it?--to
[BOOK I] [205] deposited arms with me and he asks for them when he is not in his right
[BOOK I] [208] ought always to speak the truth to one who is in his condition.
[BOOK I] [212] But then, I said, speaking the truth and paying your debts is not a correct
[BOOK I] [215] Quite correct, Socrates, if Simonides is to be believed, said Polemarchus
[BOOK I] [221] Is not Polemarchus your heir? I said.
[BOOK I] [228] He said that the repayment of a debt is just, and in saying so he appears
[BOOK I] [232] his meaning, though probably clear to you, is the reverse of clear to me.
[BOOK I] [235] is not in his right senses; and yet a deposit cannot be denied to be a
[BOOK I] [240] Then when the person who asks me is not in his right mind I am by no means
[BOOK I] [251] You mean that the return of a deposit of gold which is to the injury of the
[BOOK I] [252] receiver, if the two parties are friends, is not the repayment of a debt,--
[BOOK I] [253] that is what you would imagine him to say?
[BOOK I] [260] I take it, owes to an enemy that which is due or proper to him--that is to
[BOOK I] [264] darkly of the nature of justice; for he really meant to say that justice is
[BOOK I] [265] the giving to each man what is proper to him, and this he termed a debt.
[BOOK I] [269] By heaven! I replied; and if we asked him what due or proper thing is given
[BOOK I] [276] And what due or proper thing is given by cookery, and to what?
[BOOK I] [280] And what is that which justice gives, and to whom?
[BOOK I] [283] instances, then justice is the art which gives good to friends and evil to
[BOOK I] [286] That is his meaning then?
[BOOK I] [290] And who is best able to do good to his friends and evil to his enemies in
[BOOK I] [299] And in what sort of actions or with a view to what result is the just man
[BOOK I] [304] But when a man is well, my dear Polemarchus, there is no need of a
[BOOK I] [309] And he who is not on a voyage has no need of a pilot?
[BOOK I] [325] Or like shoemaking for the acquisition of shoes,--that is what you mean?
[BOOK I] [331] In contracts, Socrates, justice is of use.
[BOOK I] [337] But is the just man or the skilful player a more useful and better partner
[BOOK I] [342] And in the laying of bricks and stones is the just man a more useful or
[BOOK I] [347] Then in what sort of partnership is the just man a better partner than the
[BOOK I] [348] harp-player, as in playing the harp the harp-player is certainly a better
[BOOK I] [355] who is knowing about horses would be better for that, would he not?
[BOOK I] [364] Then what is that joint use of silver or gold in which the just man is to
[BOOK I] [369] You mean when money is not wanted, but allowed to lie?
[BOOK I] [373] That is to say, justice is useful when money is useless?
[BOOK I] [375] That is the inference.
[BOOK I] [377] And when you want to keep a pruning-hook safe, then justice is useful to
[BOOK I] [384] would say that justice is useful; but when you want to use them, then the
[BOOK I] [389] And so of all other things;--justice is useful when they are useless, and
[BOOK I] [392] That is the inference.
[BOOK I] [394] Then justice is not good for much. But let us consider this further point:
[BOOK I] [395] Is not he who can best strike a blow in a boxing match or in any kind of
[BOOK I] [400] And he who is most skilful in preventing or escaping from a disease is best
[BOOK I] [405] And he is the best guard of a camp who is best able to steal a march upon
[BOOK I] [410] Then he who is a good keeper of anything is also a good thief?
[BOOK I] [412] That, I suppose, is to be inferred.
[BOOK I] [414] Then if the just man is good at keeping money, he is good at stealing it.
[BOOK I] [416] That is implied in the argument.
[BOOK I] [418] Then after all the just man has turned out to be a thief. And this is a
[BOOK I] [420] of Autolycus, the maternal grandfather of Odysseus, who is a favourite of
[BOOK I] [425] And so, you and Homer and Simonides are agreed that justice is an art of
[BOOK I] [432] Well, there is another question: By friends and enemies do we mean those
[BOOK I] [441] That is true.
[BOOK I] [455] Then according to your argument it is just to injure those who do no wrong?
[BOOK I] [457] Nay, Socrates; the doctrine is immoral.
[BOOK I] [463] But see the consequence:--Many a man who is ignorant of human nature has
[BOOK I] [474] We assumed that he is a friend who seems to be or who is thought good.
[BOOK I] [476] And how is the error to be corrected?
[BOOK I] [478] We should rather say that he is a friend who is, as well as seems, good;
[BOOK I] [479] and that he who seems only, and is not good, only seems to be and is not a
[BOOK I] [486] And instead of saying simply as we did at first, that it is just to do good
[BOOK I] [487] to our friends and harm to our enemies, we should further say: It is just
[BOOK I] [501] Deteriorated, that is to say, in the good qualities of horses, not of dogs?
[BOOK I] [509] And will not men who are injured be deteriorated in that which is the
[BOOK I] [514] And that human virtue is justice?
[BOOK I] [520] That is the result.
[BOOK I] [547] And the just is the good?
[BOOK I] [551] Then to injure a friend or any one else is not the act of a just man, but
[BOOK I] [552] of the opposite, who is the unjust?
[BOOK I] [554] I think that what you say is quite true, Socrates.
[BOOK I] [557] that good is the debt which a just man owes to his friends, and evil the
[BOOK I] [558] debt which he owes to his enemies,--to say this is not wise; for it is not
[BOOK I] [576] was the first to say that justice is 'doing good to your friends and harm
[BOOK I] [593] another? I say that if you want really to know what justice is, you should
[BOOK I] [595] the refutation of an opponent, but have your own answer; for there is many
[BOOK I] [597] justice is duty or advantage or profit or gain or interest, for this sort
[BOOK I] [613] do so, but the fact is that we cannot. And if so, you people who know all
[BOOK I] [625] obviously, if that is your way of putting the question, no one can answer
[BOOK I] [628] question, am I falsely to say some other number which is not the right
[BOOK I] [629] one?--is that your meaning?'--How would you answer him?
[BOOK I] [634] appear to be so to the person who is asked, ought he not to say what he
[BOOK I] [645] Done to me!--as becomes the ignorant, I must learn from the wise--that is
[BOOK I] [660] his own, is told by a man of authority not to utter them? The natural
[BOOK I] [661] thing is, that the speaker should be some one like yourself who professes
[BOOK I] [672] That I learn of others, I replied, is quite true; but that I am ungrateful
[BOOK I] [673] I wholly deny. Money I have none, and therefore I pay in praise, which is
[BOOK I] [678] Listen, then, he said; I proclaim that justice is nothing else than the
[BOOK I] [682] Let me first understand you, I replied. Justice, as you say, is the
[BOOK I] [683] interest of the stronger. What, Thrasymachus, is the meaning of this? You
[BOOK I] [684] cannot mean to say that because Polydamas, the pancratiast, is stronger
[BOOK I] [686] that to eat beef is therefore equally for our good who are weaker than he
[BOOK I] [687] is, and right and just for us?
[BOOK I] [690] is most damaging to the argument.
[BOOK I] [700] And the government is the ruling power in each state?
[BOOK I] [708] punish as a breaker of the law, and unjust. And that is what I mean when I
[BOOK I] [709] say that in all states there is the same principle of justice, which is the
[BOOK I] [711] power, the only reasonable conclusion is, that everywhere there is one
[BOOK I] [712] principle of justice, which is the interest of the stronger.
[BOOK I] [716] used the word 'interest' which you forbade me to use. It is true, however,
[BOOK I] [722] you are saying is the truth. Now we are both agreed that justice is
[BOOK I] [728] I will; and first tell me, Do you admit that it is just for subjects to
[BOOK I] [748] And the laws which they make must be obeyed by their subjects,--and that is
[BOOK I] [753] Then justice, according to your argument, is not only obedience to the
[BOOK I] [756] What is that you are saying? he asked.
[BOOK I] [760] interest in what they command, and also that to obey them is justice? Has
[BOOK I] [767] which are to their own injury. For if, as you say, justice is the
[BOOK I] [769] wisest of men, is there any escape from the conclusion that the weaker are
[BOOK I] [770] commanded to do, not what is for the interest, but what is for the injury
[BOOK I] [777] But there is no need of any witness, said Polemarchus, for Thrasymachus
[BOOK I] [778] himself acknowledges that rulers may sometimes command what is not for
[BOOK I] [779] their own interest, and that for subjects to obey them is justice.
[BOOK I] [782] commanded by their rulers is just.
[BOOK I] [784] Yes, Cleitophon, but he also said that justice is the interest of the
[BOOK I] [787] to do what is not for his own interest; whence follows that justice is the
[BOOK I] [800] Certainly not, he said. Do you suppose that I call him who is mistaken the
[BOOK I] [801] stronger at the time when he is mistaken?
[BOOK I] [807] who is mistaken about the sick is a physician in that he is mistaken? or
[BOOK I] [808] that he who errs in arithmetic or grammar is an arithmetician or grammarian
[BOOK I] [809] at the time when he is making the mistake, in respect of the mistake?
[BOOK I] [811] mistake, but this is only a way of speaking; for the fact is that neither
[BOOK I] [813] as he is what his name implies; they none of them err unless their skill
[BOOK I] [815] or ruler errs at the time when he is what his name implies; though he is
[BOOK I] [818] that the ruler, in so far as he is a ruler, is unerring, and, being
[BOOK I] [819] unerring, always commands that which is for his own interest; and the
[BOOK I] [820] subject is required to execute his commands; and therefore, as I said at
[BOOK I] [821] first and now repeat, justice is the interest of the stronger.
[BOOK I] [831] Nay, he replied, 'suppose' is not the word--I know it; but you will be
[BOOK I] [837] being the superior, it is just that the inferior should execute--is he a
[BOOK I] [850] you a question: Is the physician, taken in that strict sense of which you
[BOOK I] [856] And the pilot--that is to say, the true pilot--is he a captain of sailors
[BOOK I] [861] The circumstance that he sails in the ship is not to be taken into account;
[BOOK I] [862] neither is he to be called a sailor; the name pilot by which he is
[BOOK I] [863] distinguished has nothing to do with sailing, but is significant of his
[BOOK I] [874] Yes, that is the aim of art.
[BOOK I] [876] And the interest of any art is the perfection of it--this and nothing else?
[BOOK I] [881] Suppose you were to ask me whether the body is self-sufficing or has wants,
[BOOK I] [884] medicine ministers; and this is the origin and intention of medicine, as
[BOOK I] [889] But is the art of medicine or any other art faulty or deficient in any
[BOOK I] [900] faultless while remaining true--that is to say, while perfect and
[BOOK I] [914] is the subject of their art?
[BOOK I] [929] Then, I continued, no physician, in so far as he is a physician, considers
[BOOK I] [931] true physician is also a ruler having the human body as a subject, and is
[BOOK I] [936] And the pilot likewise, in the strict sense of the term, is a ruler of
[BOOK I] [942] the sailor who is under him, and not for his own or the ruler's interest?
[BOOK I] [946] Then, I said, Thrasymachus, there is no one in any rule who, in so far as
[BOOK I] [947] he is a ruler, considers or enjoins what is for his own interest, but
[BOOK I] [948] always what is for the interest of his subject or suitable to his art; to
[BOOK I] [970] justice and the just are in reality another's good; that is to say, the
[BOOK I] [972] servant; and injustice the opposite; for the unjust is lord over the truly
[BOOK I] [973] simple and just: he is the stronger, and his subjects do what is for his
[BOOK I] [974] interest, and minister to his happiness, which is very far from being their
[BOOK I] [975] own. Consider further, most foolish Socrates, that the just is always a
[BOOK I] [977] wherever the unjust is the partner of the just you will find that, when the
[BOOK I] [978] partnership is dissolved, the unjust man has always more and the just less.
[BOOK I] [979] Secondly, in their dealings with the State: when there is an income-tax,
[BOOK I] [981] income; and when there is anything to be received the one gains nothing and
[BOOK I] [983] is the just man neglecting his affairs and perhaps suffering other losses,
[BOOK I] [984] and getting nothing out of the public, because he is just; moreover he is
[BOOK I] [986] unlawful ways. But all this is reversed in the case of the unjust man. I
[BOOK I] [988] advantage of the unjust is most apparent; and my meaning will be most
[BOOK I] [990] criminal is the happiest of men, and the sufferers or those who refuse to
[BOOK I] [991] do injustice are the most miserable--that is to say tyranny, which by fraud
[BOOK I] [999] then, instead of these names of reproach, he is termed happy and blessed,
[BOOK I] [1005] said at first, justice is the interest of the stronger, whereas injustice
[BOOK I] [1006] is a man's own profit and interest.
[BOOK I] [1014] learned whether they are true or not? Is the attempt to determine the way
[BOOK I] [1022] you know, is to you a matter of indifference. Prithee, friend, do not keep
[BOOK I] [1027] For, granting that there may be an unjust man who is able to commit
[BOOK I] [1046] shepherd. Yet surely the art of the shepherd is concerned only with the
[BOOK I] [1048] perfection of the art is already ensured whenever all the requirements of
[BOOK I] [1052] subjects; whereas you seem to think that the rulers in states, that is to
[BOOK I] [1064] Yes, that is the difference, he replied.
[BOOK I] [1073] not confuse this with other arts, any more than the art of the pilot is to
[BOOK I] [1076] that navigation is the art of medicine, at least if we are to adopt your
[BOOK I] [1081] Or because a man is in good health when he receives pay you would not say
[BOOK I] [1082] that the art of payment is medicine?
[BOOK I] [1086] Nor would you say that medicine is the art of receiving pay because a man
[BOOK I] [1087] takes fees when he is engaged in healing?
[BOOK I] [1091] And we have admitted, I said, that the good of each art is specially
[BOOK I] [1096] Then, if there be any good which all artists have in common, that is to be
[BOOK I] [1101] And when the artist is benefited by receiving pay the advantage is gained
[BOOK I] [1102] by an additional use of the art of pay, which is not the art professed by
[BOOK I] [1107] Then the pay is not derived by the several artists from their respective
[BOOK I] [1108] arts. But the truth is, that while the art of medicine gives health, and
[BOOK I] [1109] the art of the builder builds a house, another art attends them which is
[BOOK I] [1120] Then now, Thrasymachus, there is no longer any doubt that neither arts nor
[BOOK I] [1124] of the superior. And this is the reason, my dear Thrasymachus, why, as I
[BOOK I] [1125] was just now saying, no one is willing to govern; because no one likes to
[BOOK I] [1134] are intelligible enough, but what the penalty is I do not understand, or
[BOOK I] [1138] best men is the great inducement to rule? Of course you know that ambition
[BOOK I] [1149] imagine, is the reason why the forwardness to take office, instead of
[BOOK I] [1151] of the punishment is that he who refuses to rule is liable to be ruled by
[BOOK I] [1152] one who is worse than himself. And the fear of this, as I conceive,
[BOOK I] [1156] commit the task of ruling to any one who is better than themselves, or
[BOOK I] [1157] indeed as good. For there is reason to think that if a city were composed
[BOOK I] [1159] contention as to obtain office is at present; then we should have plain
[BOOK I] [1160] proof that the true ruler is not meant by nature to regard his own
[BOOK I] [1164] is the interest of the stronger. This latter question need not be further
[BOOK I] [1166] unjust is more advantageous than that of the just, his new statement
[BOOK I] [1178] Then shall we try to find some way of convincing him, if we can, that he is
[BOOK I] [1179] saying what is not true?
[BOOK I] [1197] answer me. You say that perfect injustice is more gainful than perfect
[BOOK I] [1200] Yes, that is what I say, and I have given you my reasons.
[BOOK I] [1202] And what is your view about them? Would you call one of them virtue and
[BOOK I] [1253] I may be in earnest or not, but what is that to you?--to refute the
[BOOK I] [1254] argument is your business.
[BOOK I] [1256] Very true, I said; that is what I have to do: But will you be so good as
[BOOK I] [1261] he is.
[BOOK I] [1273] Whether he would or would not be able, I said, is not to the point. My
[BOOK I] [1274] question is only whether the just man, while refusing to have more than
[BOOK I] [1280] do more than is just?
[BOOK I] [1295] And the unjust is good and wise, and the just is neither?
[BOOK I] [1299] And is not the unjust like the wise and good and the just unlike them?
[BOOK I] [1301] Of course, he said, he who is of a certain nature, is like those who are of
[BOOK I] [1302] a certain nature; he who is not, not.
[BOOK I] [1304] Each of them, I said, is such as his like is?
[BOOK I] [1309] would admit that one man is a musician and another not a musician?
[BOOK I] [1313] And which is wise and which is foolish?
[BOOK I] [1315] Clearly the musician is wise, and he who is not a musician is foolish.
[BOOK I] [1317] And he is good in as far as he is wise, and bad in as far as he is foolish?
[BOOK I] [1357] And the knowing is wise?
[BOOK I] [1361] And the wise is good?
[BOOK I] [1383] Then the just is like the wise and good, and the unjust like the evil and
[BOOK I] [1386] That is the inference.
[BOOK I] [1388] And each of them is such as his like is?
[BOOK I] [1401] Well, I said, Thrasymachus, that matter is now settled; but were we not
[BOOK I] [1422] on regularly. A statement was made that injustice is stronger and more
[BOOK I] [1424] and virtue, is easily shown to be stronger than injustice, if injustice is
[BOOK I] [1435] consider is, whether this power which is possessed by the superior state
[BOOK I] [1438] If you are right in your view, and justice is wisdom, then only with
[BOOK I] [1444] That is out of civility to you, he replied.
[BOOK I] [1458] And this is because injustice creates divisions and hatreds and fighting,
[BOOK I] [1459] and justice imparts harmony and friendship; is not that true, Thrasymachus?
[BOOK I] [1480] Yet is not the power which injustice exercises of such a nature that
[BOOK I] [1482] family, or in any other body, that body is, to begin with, rendered
[BOOK I] [1485] with the just? Is not this the case?
[BOOK I] [1489] And is not injustice equally fatal when existing in a single person; in the
[BOOK I] [1490] first place rendering him incapable of action because he is not at unity
[BOOK I] [1492] the just? Is not that true, Thrasymachus?
[BOOK I] [1510] at any time vigorously together, is not strictly true, for if they had been
[BOOK I] [1511] perfectly evil, they would have laid hands upon one another; but it is
[BOOK I] [1516] would have been utterly incapable of action. That, as I believe, is the
[BOOK I] [1518] have a better and happier life than the unjust is a further question which
[BOOK I] [1521] light matter is at stake, nothing less than the rule of human life.
[BOOK I] [1556] May we not say that this is the end of a pruning-hook?
[BOOK I] [1566] And that to which an end is appointed has also an excellence? Need I ask
[BOOK I] [1579] And the same is true of all other things; they have each of them an end and
[BOOK I] [1582] That is so.
[BOOK I] [1589] You mean to say, if they have lost their proper excellence, which is sight;
[BOOK I] [1613] And is not life to be reckoned among the ends of the soul?
[BOOK I] [1631] And we have admitted that justice is the excellence of the soul, and
[BOOK I] [1639] That is what your argument proves.
[BOOK I] [1641] And he who lives well is blessed and happy, and he who lives ill the
[BOOK I] [1646] Then the just is happy, and the unjust miserable?
[BOOK I] [1650] But happiness and not misery is profitable.
[BOOK I] [1662] snatches a taste of every dish which is successively brought to table, he
[BOOK I] [1666] consider whether justice is virtue and wisdom or evil and folly; and when
[BOOK I] [1670] not what justice is, and therefore I am not likely to know whether it is or
[BOOK I] [1671] is not a virtue, nor can I say whether the just man is happy or unhappy.
[BOOK II] [1677] but the end, in truth, proved to be only a beginning. For Glaucon, who is
[BOOK II] [1681] that to be just is always better than to be unjust?
[BOOK II] [1691] I agree in thinking that there is such a class, I replied.
[BOOK II] [1693] Is there not also a second class of goods, such as knowledge, sight,
[BOOK II] [1705] There is, I said, this third class also. But why do you ask?
[BOOK II] [1713] Then the many are of another mind; they think that justice is to be
[BOOK II] [1718] I know, I said, that this is their manner of thinking, and that this was
[BOOK II] [1732] there is reason in this view, for the life of the unjust is after all
[BOOK II] [1733] better far than the life of the just--if what they say is true, Socrates,
[BOOK II] [1751] They say that to do injustice is, by nature, good; to suffer injustice,
[BOOK II] [1752] evil; but that the evil is greater than the good. And so when men have
[BOOK II] [1756] covenants; and that which is ordained by law is termed by them lawful and
[BOOK II] [1757] just. This they affirm to be the origin and nature of justice;--it is a
[BOOK II] [1758] mean or compromise, between the best of all, which is to do injustice and
[BOOK II] [1759] not be punished, and the worst of all, which is to suffer injustice without
[BOOK II] [1761] two, is tolerated not as a good, but as the lesser evil, and honoured by
[BOOK II] [1762] reason of the inability of men to do injustice. For no man who is worthy
[BOOK II] [1764] to resist; he would be mad if he did. Such is the received account,
[BOOK II] [1775] them in the form of such a power as is said to have been possessed by
[BOOK II] [1804] that a man is just, not willingly or because he thinks that justice is any
[BOOK II] [1806] that he can safely be unjust, there he is unjust. For all men believe in
[BOOK II] [1807] their hearts that injustice is far more profitable to the individual than
[BOOK II] [1817] we must isolate them; there is no other way; and how is the isolation to be
[BOOK II] [1819] man entirely just; nothing is to be taken away from either of them, and
[BOOK II] [1823] keeps within their limits, and who, if he fails at any point, is able to
[BOOK II] [1825] way, and lie hidden if he means to be great in his injustice: (he who is
[BOOK II] [1826] found out is nobody:) for the highest reach of injustice is, to be deemed
[BOOK II] [1828] must assume the most perfect injustice; there is to be no deduction, but we
[BOOK II] [1832] of his deeds come to light, and who can force his way where force is
[BOOK II] [1837] then we shall not know whether he is just for the sake of justice or for
[BOOK II] [1845] justice and the other of injustice, let judgment be given which of them is
[BOOK II] [1851] I do my best, he said. And now that we know what they are like there is no
[BOOK II] [1856] injustice: They will tell you that the just man who is thought unjust will
[BOOK II] [1861] unjust is pursuing a reality; he does not live with a view to appearances--
[BOOK II] [1867] In the first place, he is thought just, and therefore bears rule in the
[BOOK II] [1872] their expense, and is rich, and out of his gains he can benefit his
[BOOK II] [1876] just, and therefore he is likely to be dearer than they are to the gods.
[BOOK II] [1881] brother, interposed: Socrates, he said, you do not suppose that there is
[BOOK II] [1884] Why, what else is there? I answered.
[BOOK II] [1893] Nonsense, he replied. But let me add something more: There is another
[BOOK II] [1895] injustice, which is equally required in order to bring out what I believe
[BOOK II] [1899] him who is reputed just some of those offices, marriages, and the like
[BOOK II] [1901] from the reputation of justice. More, however, is made of appearances by
[BOOK II] [1912] has a very similar strain; for he speaks of one whose fame is--
[BOOK II] [1922] garlands; their idea seems to be that an immortality of drunkenness is the
[BOOK II] [1925] and fourth generation. This is the style in which they praise justice.
[BOOK II] [1926] But about the wicked there is another strain; they bury them in a slough in
[BOOK II] [1930] nothing else does their invention supply. Such is their manner of praising
[BOOK II] [1934] about justice and injustice, which is not confined to the poets, but is
[BOOK II] [1935] found in prose writers. The universal voice of mankind is always declaring
[BOOK II] [1938] censured by law and opinion. They say also that honesty is for the most
[BOOK II] [1943] than the others. But most extraordinary of all is their mode of speaking
[BOOK II] [1954] 'Vice may be had in abundance without trouble; the way is smooth and her
[BOOK II] [1955] dwelling-place is near. But before virtue the gods have set toil,'
[BOOK II] [1965] children of the Moon and the Muses--that is what they say--according to
[BOOK II] [1985] For what men say is that, if I am really just and am not also thought just
[BOOK II] [1986] profit there is none, but the pain and loss on the other hand are
[BOOK II] [1988] a heavenly life is promised to me. Since then, as philosophers prove,
[BOOK II] [1989] appearance tyrannizes over truth and is lord of happiness, to appearance I
[BOOK II] [1993] But I hear some one exclaiming that the concealment of wickedness is often
[BOOK II] [1994] difficult; to which I answer, Nothing great is easy. Nevertheless, the
[BOOK II] [2012] will be propitiated, and we shall not be punished. 'But there is a world
[BOOK II] [2015] and atoning deities, and these have great power. That is what mighty
[BOOK II] [2026] should be some one who is able to disprove the truth of my words, and who
[BOOK II] [2027] is satisfied that justice is best, still he is not angry with the unjust,
[BOOK II] [2028] but is very ready to forgive them, because he also knows that men are not
[BOOK II] [2033] power of being unjust. And this is proved by the fact that when he obtains
[BOOK II] [2045] man's soul which he has within him, justice is the greatest good, and
[BOOK II] [2062] and that you really agree with Thrasymachus in thinking that justice is
[BOOK II] [2063] another's good and the interest of the stronger, and that injustice is a
[BOOK II] [2065] have admitted that justice is one of that highest class of goods which are
[BOOK II] [2072] one and abusing the other; that is a manner of arguing which, coming from
[BOOK II] [2076] to us that justice is better than injustice, but show what they either of
[BOOK II] [2088] The epithet is very appropriate, for there is something truly divine in
[BOOK II] [2093] my confidence in you, the greater is my difficulty in knowing what to say.
[BOOK II] [2095] to the task; and my inability is brought home to me by the fact that you
[BOOK II] [2099] that there would be an impiety in being present when justice is evil spoken
[BOOK II] [2119] I will tell you, I replied; justice, which is the subject of our enquiry,
[BOOK II] [2120] is, as you know, sometimes spoken of as the virtue of an individual, and
[BOOK II] [2125] And is not a State larger than an individual?
[BOOK II] [2127] It is.
[BOOK II] [2129] Then in the larger the quantity of justice is likely to be larger and more
[BOOK II] [2135] That, he said, is an excellent proposal.
[BOOK II] [2142] When the State is completed there may be a hope that the object of our
[BOOK II] [2153] is self-sufficing, but all of us have many wants. Can any other origin of
[BOOK II] [2161] inhabitants is termed a State.
[BOOK II] [2171] creator is necessity, who is the mother of our invention.
[BOOK II] [2175] Now the first and greatest of necessities is food, which is the condition
[BOOK II] [2180] The second is a dwelling, and the third clothing and the like.
[BOOK II] [2185] We may suppose that one man is a husbandman, another a builder, some one
[BOOK II] [2219] Further, there can be no doubt that a work is spoilt when not done at the
[BOOK II] [2224] For business is not disposed to wait until the doer of the business is at
[BOOK II] [2225] leisure; but the doer must follow up what he is doing, and make the
[BOOK II] [2231] easily and of a better quality when one man does one thing which is natural
[BOOK II] [2244] our little State, which is already beginning to grow?
[BOOK II] [2253] That is true; yet neither will it be a very small State which contains all
[BOOK II] [2256] Then, again, there is the situation of the city--to find a place where
[BOOK II] [2257] nothing need be imported is wellnigh impossible.
[BOOK II] [2269] That is certain.
[BOOK II] [2289] And if merchandise is to be carried over the sea, skilful sailors will also
[BOOK II] [2306] market, and he comes at a time when there is no one to exchange with him,--
[BOOK II] [2307] is he to leave his calling and sit idle in the market-place?
[BOOK II] [2312] purpose; their duty is to be in the market, and to give money in exchange
[BOOK II] [2316] This want, then, creates a class of retail-traders in our State. Is not
[BOOK II] [2317] 'retailer' the term which is applied to those who sit in the market-place
[BOOK II] [2323] And there is another class of servants, who are intellectually hardly on
[BOOK II] [2326] hirelings, hire being the name which is given to the price of their labour.
[BOOK II] [2334] And now, Adeimantus, is our State matured and perfected?
[BOOK II] [2338] Where, then, is justice, and where is injustice, and in what part of the
[BOOK II] [2381] consider is, not only how a State, but how a luxurious State is created;
[BOOK II] [2382] and possibly there is no harm in this, for in such a State we shall be more
[BOOK II] [2384] and healthy constitution of the State is the one which I have described.
[BOOK II] [2396] Then we must enlarge our borders; for the original healthy State is no
[BOOK II] [2453] But is not war an art?
[BOOK II] [2467] soldier should be well done. But is war an art so easily acquired that a
[BOOK II] [2468] man may be a warrior who is also a husbandman, or shoemaker, or other
[BOOK II] [2500] Is not the noble youth very like a well-bred dog in respect of guarding and
[BOOK II] [2511] Well, and your guardian must be brave if he is to fight well?
[BOOK II] [2515] And is he likely to be brave who has no spirit, whether horse or dog or any
[BOOK II] [2516] other animal? Have you never observed how invincible and unconquerable is
[BOOK II] [2527] And also of the mental ones; his soul is to be full of spirit?
[BOOK II] [2542] What is to be done then? I said; how shall we find a gentle nature which
[BOOK II] [2543] has also a great spirit, for the one is the contradiction of the other?
[BOOK II] [2547] He will not be a good guardian who is wanting in either of these two
[BOOK II] [2549] hence we must infer that to be a good guardian is impossible.
[BOOK II] [2551] I am afraid that what you say is true, he replied.
[BOOK II] [2564] Many animals, I replied, furnish examples of them; our friend the dog is a
[BOOK II] [2570] Then there is nothing impossible or out of the order of nature in our
[BOOK II] [2575] Would not he who is fitted to be a guardian, besides the spirited nature,
[BOOK II] [2581] and is remarkable in the animal.
[BOOK II] [2585] Why, a dog, whenever he sees a stranger, is angry; when an acquaintance, he
[BOOK II] [2592] And surely this instinct of the dog is very charming;--your dog is a true
[BOOK II] [2604] And is not the love of learning the love of wisdom, which is philosophy?
[BOOK II] [2608] And may we not say confidently of man also, that he who is likely to be
[BOOK II] [2614] Then he who is to be a really good and noble guardian of the State will
[BOOK II] [2621] how are they to be reared and educated? Is not this an enquiry which may
[BOOK II] [2622] be expected to throw light on the greater enquiry which is our final end--
[BOOK II] [2624] to omit what is to the point or to draw out the argument to an inconvenient
[BOOK II] [2671] You know also that the beginning is the most important part of any work,
[BOOK II] [2672] especially in the case of a young and tender thing; for that is the time at
[BOOK II] [2673] which the character is being formed and the desired impression is more
[BOOK II] [2686] fiction, and let the censors receive any tale of fiction which is good, and
[BOOK II] [2695] necessarily of the same type, and there is the same spirit in both of them.
[BOOK II] [2706] A fault which is most serious, I said; the fault of telling a lie, and,
[BOOK II] [2707] what is more, a bad lie.
[BOOK II] [2709] But when is this fault committed?
[BOOK II] [2711] Whenever an erroneous representation is made of the nature of gods and
[BOOK II] [2715] Yes, he said, that sort of thing is certainly very blameable; but what are
[BOOK II] [2724] But if there is an absolute necessity for their mention, a chosen few might
[BOOK II] [2732] young man should not be told that in committing the worst of crimes he is
[BOOK II] [2747] them that quarrelling is unholy, and that never up to this time has there
[BOOK II] [2748] been any quarrel between citizens; this is what old men and old women
[BOOK II] [2755] For a young person cannot judge what is allegorical and what is literal;
[BOOK II] [2756] anything that he receives into his mind at that age is likely to become
[BOOK II] [2757] indelible and unalterable; and therefore it is most important that the
[BOOK II] [2766] observed by them, but to make the tales is not their business.
[BOOK II] [2770] Something of this kind, I replied:--God is always to be represented as he
[BOOK II] [2771] truly is, whatever be the sort of poetry, epic, lyric or tragic, in which
[BOOK II] [2772] the representation is given.
[BOOK II] [2776] And is he not truly good? and must he not be represented as such?
[BOOK II] [2780] And no good thing is hurtful?
[BOOK II] [2784] And that which is not hurtful hurts not?
[BOOK II] [2796] And the good is advantageous?
[BOOK II] [2804] It follows therefore that the good is not the cause of all things, but of
[BOOK II] [2809] Then God, if he be good, is not the author of all things, as the many
[BOOK II] [2810] assert, but he is the cause of a few things only, and not of most things
[BOOK II] [2812] evils, and the good is to be attributed to God alone; of the evils the
[BOOK II] [2817] Then we must not listen to Homer or to any other poet who is guilty of the
[BOOK II] [2827] but that he to whom is given the cup of unmingled ill,
[BOOK II] [2833] 'Zeus, who is the dispenser of good and evil to us.'
[BOOK II] [2849] those who are punished are miserable, and that God is the author of their
[BOOK II] [2850] misery--the poet is not to be permitted to say; though he may say that the
[BOOK II] [2852] by receiving punishment from God; but that God being good is the author of
[BOOK II] [2853] evil to any one is to be strenuously denied, and not to be said or sung or
[BOOK II] [2855] commonwealth. Such a fiction is suicidal, ruinous, impious.
[BOOK II] [2860] which our poets and reciters will be expected to conform,--that God is not
[BOOK II] [2866] is a magician, and of a nature to appear insidiously now in one shape, and
[BOOK II] [2868] sometimes deceiving us with the semblance of such transformations; or is he
[BOOK II] [2879] discomposed; for example, when healthiest and strongest, the human frame is
[BOOK II] [2880] least liable to be affected by meats and drinks, and the plant which is in
[BOOK II] [2897] Then everything which is good, whether made by art or nature, or both, is
[BOOK II] [2912] Clearly, he said, that must be the case if he is changed at all.
[BOOK II] [2925] Then it is impossible that God should ever be willing to change; being, as
[BOOK II] [2926] is supposed, the fairest and best that is conceivable, every God remains
[BOOK II] [2962] allowed, is hated of gods and men?
[BOOK II] [2966] I mean that no one is willingly deceived in that which is the truest and
[BOOK II] [2968] above all, he is most afraid of a lie having possession of him.
[BOOK II] [2972] The reason is, I replied, that you attribute some profound meaning to my
[BOOK II] [2974] about the highest realities in the highest part of themselves, which is the
[BOOK II] [2975] soul, and in that part of them to have and to hold the lie, is what mankind
[BOOK II] [2976] least like;--that, I say, is what they utterly detest.
[BOOK II] [2978] There is nothing more hateful to them.
[BOOK II] [2980] And, as I was just now remarking, this ignorance in the soul of him who is
[BOOK II] [2981] deceived may be called the true lie; for the lie in words is only a kind of
[BOOK II] [2987] The true lie is hated not only by the gods, but also by men?
[BOOK II] [2991] Whereas the lie in words is in certain cases useful and not hateful; in
[BOOK II] [2994] harm, then it is useful and is a sort of medicine or preventive; also in
[BOOK II] [3001] But can any of these reasons apply to God? Can we suppose that he is
[BOOK II] [3010] Or perhaps he may tell a lie because he is afraid of enemies?
[BOOK II] [3012] That is inconceivable.
[BOOK II] [3022] Then the superhuman and divine is absolutely incapable of falsehood?
[BOOK II] [3026] Then is God perfectly simple and true both in word and deed; he changes
[BOOK II] [3031] You agree with me then, I said, that this is the second type or form in
[BOOK II] [3047] the banquet, and who said this--he it is who has slain my son.'
[BOOK III] [3100] 'O heavens! verily in the house of Hades there is soul and ghostly form but
[BOOK III] [3136] is a danger that the nerves of our guardians may be rendered too excitable
[BOOK III] [3139] There is a real danger, he said.
[BOOK III] [3153] But shall we be right in getting rid of them? Reflect: our principle is
[BOOK III] [3155] who is his comrade.
[BOOK III] [3157] Yes; that is our principle.
[BOOK III] [3164] Such an one, as we further maintain, is sufficient for himself and his own
[BOOK III] [3165] happiness, and therefore is least in need of other men.
[BOOK III] [3170] fortune, is to him of all men least terrible.
[BOOK III] [3187] Achilles, who is the son of a goddess, first lying on his side, then on his
[BOOK III] [3205] and round the city, and my heart is sorrowful.'
[BOOK III] [3209] Woe is me that I am fated to have Sarpedon, dearest of men to me, subdued
[BOOK III] [3220] Yes, he said, that is most true.
[BOOK III] [3222] Yes, I replied; but that surely is what ought not to be, as the argument
[BOOK III] [3223] has just proved to us; and by that proof we must abide until it is
[BOOK III] [3249] is certain.
[BOOK III] [3251] Again, truth should be highly valued; if, as we were saying, a lie is
[BOOK III] [3258] Then if any one at all is to have the privilege of lying, the rulers of the
[BOOK III] [3263] in return is to be deemed a more heinous fault than for the patient or the
[BOOK III] [3266] what is happening about the ship and the rest of the crew, and how things
[BOOK III] [3275] he will punish him for introducing a practice which is equally subversive
[BOOK III] [3278] Most certainly, he said, if our idea of the State is ever carried out.
[BOOK III] [3319] is more glorious than
[BOOK III] [3324] is it fit or conducive to temperance for a young man to hear such
[BOOK III] [3327] 'The saddest of fates is to die and meet destiny from hunger?'
[BOOK III] [3345] ought to see and hear; as, for example, what is said in the verses,
[BOOK III] [3361] Neither is Phoenix, the tutor of Achilles, to be approved or deemed to have
[BOOK III] [3373] him, he is guilty of downright impiety. As little can I believe the
[BOOK III] [3379] or his insubordination to the river-god, on whose divinity he is ready to
[BOOK III] [3408] for everybody will begin to excuse his own vices when he is convinced that
[BOOK III] [3412] altar of Zeus, is aloft in air on the peak of Ida,'
[BOOK III] [3430] And what shall we say about men? That is clearly the remaining portion of
[BOOK III] [3443] injustice is profitable when undetected, but that justice is a man's own
[BOOK III] [3454] That such things are or are not to be said about men is a question which we
[BOOK III] [3455] cannot determine until we have discovered what justice is, and how
[BOOK III] [3468] and poetry is a narration of events, either past, present, or to come?
[BOOK III] [3489] the poet is speaking in his own person; he never leads us to suppose that
[BOOK III] [3490] he is any one else. But in what follows he takes the person of Chryses,
[BOOK III] [3491] and then he does all that he can to make us believe that the speaker is not
[BOOK III] [3504] assimilates his style to that of the person who, as he informs you, is
[BOOK III] [3510] gesture, is the imitation of the person whose character he assumes?
[BOOK III] [3520] the imitation is dropped, and his poetry becomes simple narration.
[BOOK III] [3552] failed to apprehend before is now made clear to you, that poetry and
[BOOK III] [3554] supplied by tragedy and comedy; there is likewise the opposite style, in
[BOOK III] [3555] which the poet is the only speaker--of this the dithyramb affords the best
[BOOK III] [3556] example; and the combination of both is found in epic, and in several other
[BOOK III] [3587] And this is equally true of imitation; no one man can imitate many things
[BOOK III] [3634] against the gods in conceit of her happiness, or when she is in affliction,
[BOOK III] [3635] or sorrow, or weeping; and certainly not one who is in sickness, love, or
[BOOK III] [3648] themselves and their neighbours in word or deed, as the manner of such is.
[BOOK III] [3650] women who are mad or bad; for madness, like vice, is to be known but not to
[BOOK III] [3668] You mean, I said, if I understand you aright, that there is one sort of
[BOOK III] [3679] is acting firmly and wisely; in a less degree when he is overtaken by
[BOOK III] [3681] comes to a character which is unworthy of him, he will not make a study of
[BOOK III] [3683] all, for a moment only when he is performing some good action; at other
[BOOK III] [3692] Homer, that is to say, his style will be both imitative and narrative; but
[BOOK III] [3696] Certainly, he said; that is the model which such a speaker must necessarily
[BOOK III] [3699] But there is another sort of character who will narrate anything, and, the
[BOOK III] [3700] worse he is, the more unscrupulous he will be; nothing will be too bad for
[BOOK III] [3715] And you would agree with me in saying that one of them is simple and has
[BOOK III] [3717] simplicity, the result is that the speaker, if he speaks correctly, is
[BOOK III] [3722] That is quite true, he said.
[BOOK III] [3728] That is also perfectly true, he replied.
[BOOK III] [3741] Yes, I said, Adeimantus, but the mixed style is also very charming: and
[BOOK III] [3742] indeed the pantomimic, which is the opposite of the one chosen by you, is
[BOOK III] [3748] But I suppose you would argue that such a style is unsuitable to our State,
[BOOK III] [3749] in which human nature is not twofold or manifold, for one man plays one
[BOOK III] [3754] And this is the reason why in our State, and in our State only, we shall
[BOOK III] [3782] That is obvious.
[BOOK III] [3837] of danger and stern resolve, or when his cause is failing, and he is going
[BOOK III] [3838] to wounds or death or is overtaken by some other evil, and at every such
[BOOK III] [3841] action, when there is no pressure of necessity, and he is seeking to
[BOOK III] [3843] other hand, when he is expressing his willingness to yield to persuasion or
[BOOK III] [3868] the flute is worse than all the stringed instruments put together; even the
[BOOK III] [3869] panharmonic music is only an imitation of the flute?
[BOOK III] [3876] That is surely the conclusion to be drawn from the argument.
[BOOK III] [3879] is not at all strange, I said.
[BOOK III] [3900] tetrachord.) out of which all the harmonies are composed; that is an
[BOOK III] [3926] But there is no difficulty in seeing that grace or the absence of grace is
[BOOK III] [3933] principle is that rhythm and harmony are regulated by the words, and not
[BOOK III] [3949] and character, not that other simplicity which is only an euphemism for
[BOOK III] [3961] manufacture; also nature, animal and vegetable,--in all of them there is
[BOOK III] [3966] That is quite true, he said.
[BOOK III] [3970] they do anything else, of expulsion from our State? Or is the same control
[BOOK III] [3973] indecency in sculpture and building and the other creative arts; and is he
[BOOK III] [3989] And therefore, I said, Glaucon, musical training is a more potent
[BOOK III] [3992] grace, and making the soul of him who is rightly educated graceful, or of
[BOOK III] [3993] him who is ill-educated ungraceful; and also because he who has received
[BOOK III] [3998] his youth, even before he is able to know the reason why; and when reason
[BOOK III] [4036] And the fairest is also the loveliest?
[BOOK III] [4041] loveliest; but he will not love him who is of an inharmonious soul?
[BOOK III] [4043] That is true, he replied, if the deficiency be in his soul; but if there be
[BOOK III] [4062] And is there any greater or keener pleasure than that of sensual love?
[BOOK III] [4066] Whereas true love is a love of beauty and order--temperate and harmonious?
[BOOK III] [4076] love is of the right sort?
[BOOK III] [4083] he must first have the other's consent; and this rule is to limit him in
[BOOK III] [4084] all his intercourse, and he is never to be seen going further, or, if he
[BOOK III] [4085] exceeds, he is to be deemed guilty of coarseness and bad taste.
[BOOK III] [4099] should be careful and should continue through life. Now my belief is,--and
[BOOK III] [4100] this is a matter upon which I should like to have your opinion in
[BOOK III] [4101] confirmation of my own, but my own belief is,--not that the good body by
[BOOK III] [4116] where in the world he is.
[BOOK III] [4119] of him is ridiculous indeed.
[BOOK III] [4130] I am afraid, I said, that a habit of body such as they have is but a sleepy
[BOOK III] [4144] That is my view.
[BOOK III] [4146] The really excellent gymnastic is twin sister of that simple music which we
[BOOK III] [4151] Why, I conceive that there is a gymnastic which, like our music, is simple
[BOOK III] [4159] allowed boiled meats but only roast, which is the food most convenient for
[BOOK III] [4166] mentioned in Homer. In proscribing them, however, he is not singular; all
[BOOK III] [4167] professional athletes are well aware that a man who is to be in good
[BOOK III] [4177] Nor, if a man is to be in condition, would you allow him to have a
[BOOK III] [4200] lawyer give themselves airs, finding how keen is the interest which not
[BOOK III] [4208] would profess to have had a liberal education? Is it not disgraceful, and
[BOOK III] [4216] Would you say 'most,' I replied, when you consider that there is a further
[BOOK III] [4217] stage of the evil in which a man is not only a life-long litigant, passing
[BOOK III] [4218] all his days in the courts, either as plaintiff or defendant, but is
[BOOK III] [4220] imagines that he is a master in dishonesty; able to take every crooked
[BOOK III] [4224] as to be able to do without a napping judge is a far higher and nobler sort
[BOOK III] [4225] of thing. Is not that still more disgraceful?
[BOOK III] [4227] Yes, he said, that is still more disgraceful.
[BOOK III] [4234] catarrh; is not this, too, a disgrace?
[BOOK III] [4245] Patroclus, who is treating his case.
[BOOK III] [4251] as is commonly said, before the time of Herodicus, the guild of Asclepius
[BOOK III] [4279] I mean this: When a carpenter is ill he asks the physician for a rough and
[BOOK III] [4284] no good in a life which is spent in nursing his disease to the neglect of
[BOOK III] [4298] But with the rich man this is otherwise; of him we do not say that he has
[BOOK III] [4301] He is generally supposed to have nothing to do.
[BOOK III] [4309] ourselves: Is the practice of virtue obligatory on the rich man, or can he
[BOOK III] [4311] question, whether this dieting of disorders, which is an impediment to the
[BOOK III] [4316] body, when carried beyond the rules of gymnastic, is most inimical to the
[BOOK III] [4320] house, an army, or an office of state; and, what is most important of all,
[BOOK III] [4322] is a constant suspicion that headache and giddiness are to be ascribed to
[BOOK III] [4324] higher sense is absolutely stopped; for a man is always fancying that he is
[BOOK III] [4325] being made ill, and is in constant anxiety about the state of his body.
[BOOK III] [4343] Clearly; and his character is further illustrated by his sons. Note that
[BOOK III] [4371] All that, Socrates, is excellent; but I should like to put a question to
[BOOK III] [4391] their own persons. For the body, as I conceive, is not the instrument with
[BOOK III] [4394] which has become and is sick can cure nothing.
[BOOK III] [4396] That is very true, he said.
[BOOK III] [4398] But with the judge it is otherwise; since he governs mind by mind; he ought
[BOOK III] [4403] the honourable mind which is to form a healthy judgment should have had no
[BOOK III] [4404] experience or contamination of evil habits when young. And this is the
[BOOK III] [4407] is in their own souls.
[BOOK III] [4416] Yes, he said, that is the ideal of a judge.
[BOOK III] [4418] Yes, I replied, and he will be a good man (which is my answer to your
[BOOK III] [4419] question); for he is good who has a good soul. But the cunning and
[BOOK III] [4421] fancies himself to be a master in wickedness, when he is amongst his
[BOOK III] [4422] fellows, is wonderful in the precautions which he takes, because he judges
[BOOK III] [4428] and is by others thought to be, rather wise than foolish.
[BOOK III] [4432] Then the good and wise judge whom we are seeking is not this man, but the
[BOOK III] [4439] This is the sort of medicine, and this is the sort of law, which you will
[BOOK III] [4445] That is clearly the best thing both for the patients and for the State.
[BOOK III] [4452] And the musician, who, keeping to the same track, is content to practise
[BOOK III] [4465] Neither are the two arts of music and gymnastic really designed, as is
[BOOK III] [4469] What then is the real object of them?
[BOOK III] [4486] savage, and that the mere musician is melted and softened beyond what is
[BOOK III] [4490] educated, would give courage, but, if too much intensified, is liable to
[BOOK III] [4509] And the harmonious soul is both temperate and courageous?
[BOOK III] [4513] And the inharmonious is cowardly and boorish?
[BOOK III] [4519] which we were just now speaking, and his whole life is passed in warbling
[BOOK III] [4521] spirit which is in him is tempered like iron, and made useful, instead of
[BOOK III] [4529] If the element of spirit is naturally weak in him the change is speedily
[BOOK III] [4532] once, and is speedily extinguished; instead of having spirit he grows
[BOOK III] [4533] irritable and passionate and is quite impracticable.
[BOOK III] [4537] And so in gymnastics, if a man takes violent exercise and is a great
[BOOK III] [4553] weapon of persuasion,--he is like a wild beast, all violence and
[BOOK III] [4557] That is quite true, he said.
[BOOK III] [4574] government is to last.
[BOOK III] [4586] Very good, I said; then what is the next question? Must we not ask who are
[BOOK III] [4597] That is also clear.
[BOOK III] [4618] interests with himself, and that of which the good or evil fortune is
[BOOK III] [4624] in their whole life show the greatest eagerness to do what is for the good
[BOOK III] [4625] of their country, and the greatest repugnance to do what is against her
[BOOK III] [4639] a falsehood and learns better, against his will whenever he is deprived of
[BOOK III] [4646] willingly of evil? Is not to have lost the truth an evil, and to possess
[BOOK III] [4648] is to possess the truth?
[BOOK III] [4653] And is not this involuntary deprivation caused either by theft, or force,
[BOOK III] [4678] State is to be the rule of their lives. We must watch them from their
[BOOK III] [4680] to forget or to be deceived, and he who remembers and is not deceived is to
[BOOK III] [4681] be selected, and he who fails in the trial is to be rejected. That will be
[BOOK III] [4691] And then, I said, we must try them with enchantments--that is the third
[BOOK III] [4695] pleasures, and prove them more thoroughly than gold is proved in the
[BOOK III] [4705] reject. I am inclined to think that this is the sort of way in which our
[BOOK III] [4754] True, I replied, but there is more coming; I have only told you half.
[BOOK III] [4763] principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which
[BOOK III] [4773] will be destroyed. Such is the tale; is there any possibility of making
[BOOK III] [4776] Not in the present generation, he replied; there is no way of accomplishing
[BOOK III] [4800] What is the difference? he said.
[BOOK III] [4835] property of his own beyond what is absolutely necessary; neither should
[BOOK III] [4842] God; the diviner metal is within them, and they have therefore no need of
[BOOK III] [4843] the dross which is current among men, and ought not to pollute the divine
[BOOK III] [4845] of many unholy deeds, but their own is undefiled. And they alone of all
[BOOK IV] [4871] have gold and silver, and all that is usual among the favourites of
[BOOK IV] [4878] mistress or any other luxurious fancy, which, as the world goes, is thought
[BOOK IV] [4888] If we proceed along the old path, my belief, I said, is that we shall find
[BOOK IV] [4892] greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is
[BOOK IV] [4895] them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier. At present, I
[BOOK IV] [4910] round the winecup, while their wheel is conveniently at hand, and working
[BOOK IV] [4916] this is not of much consequence where the corruption of society, and
[BOOK IV] [4917] pretension to be what you are not, is confined to cobblers; but when the
[BOOK IV] [4922] State, whereas our opponent is thinking of peasants at a festival, who are
[BOOK IV] [4924] State. But, if so, we mean different things, and he is speaking of
[BOOK IV] [4925] something which is not a State. And therefore we must consider whether in
[BOOK IV] [4948] The process is as follows: When a potter becomes rich, will he, think you,
[BOOK IV] [4970] That is evident.
[BOOK IV] [4972] Here, then, is a discovery of new evils, I said, against which the
[BOOK IV] [4977] Wealth, I said, and poverty; the one is the parent of luxury and indolence,
[BOOK IV] [4980] That is very true, he replied; but still I should like to know, Socrates,
[BOOK IV] [4981] how our city will be able to go to war, especially against an enemy who is
[BOOK IV] [4985] such enemy; but there is no difficulty where there are two of them.
[BOOK IV] [4992] That is true, he said.
[BOOK IV] [5018] the two cities, telling them what is the truth: Silver and gold we neither
[BOOK IV] [5024] That is not likely; and yet there might be a danger to the poor State if
[BOOK IV] [5031] You ought to speak of other States in the plural number; not one of them is
[BOOK IV] [5033] however small, is in fact divided into two, one the city of the poor, the
[BOOK IV] [5042] thousand defenders. A single State which is her equal you will hardly
[BOOK IV] [5046] That is most true, he said.
[BOOK IV] [5054] I would allow the State to increase so far as is consistent with unity;
[BOOK IV] [5055] that, I think, is the proper limit.
[BOOK IV] [5059] Here then, I said, is another order which will have to be conveyed to our
[BOOK IV] [5063] And surely, said he, this is not a very severe order which we impose upon
[BOOK IV] [5066] And the other, said I, of which we were speaking before is lighter still,--
[BOOK IV] [5075] Yes, he said; that is not so difficult.
[BOOK IV] [5079] be taken, as the saying is, of the one great thing,--a thing, however,
[BOOK IV] [5101] Then to sum up: This is the point to which, above all, the attention of
[BOOK IV] [5110] of the poet; for any musical innovation is full of danger to the whole
[BOOK IV] [5125] Why, yes, he said, and there is no harm; were it not that little by little
[BOOK IV] [5132] Is that true? I said.
[BOOK IV] [5134] That is my belief, he replied.
[BOOK IV] [5158] sit; what honour is due to parents; what garments or shoes are to be worn;
[BOOK IV] [5164] But there is, I think, small wisdom in legislating about such matters,--I
[BOOK IV] [5165] doubt if it is ever done; nor are any precise written enactments about them
[BOOK IV] [5175] Until some one rare and grand result is reached which may be good, and may
[BOOK IV] [5178] That is not to be denied.
[BOOK IV] [5194] I think, he said, that there is no need to impose laws about them on good
[BOOK IV] [5216] Yes, I replied; and the charming thing is that they deem him their worst
[BOOK IV] [5217] enemy who tells them the truth, which is simply that, unless they give up
[BOOK IV] [5222] a man who tells you what is right.
[BOOK IV] [5232] indulges them and fawns upon them and is skilful in anticipating and
[BOOK IV] [5233] gratifying their humours is held to be a great and good statesman--do not
[BOOK IV] [5248] he is four cubits high, can he help believing what they say?
[BOOK IV] [5258] Yes, he said; that is just what they are doing.
[BOOK IV] [5266] What, then, he said, is still remaining to us of the work of legislation?
[BOOK IV] [5278] to any interpreter but our ancestral deity. He is the god who sits in the
[BOOK IV] [5279] centre, on the navel of the earth, and he is the interpreter of religion to
[BOOK IV] [5284] But where, amid all this, is justice? son of Ariston, tell me where. Now
[BOOK IV] [5300] the assumption that our State, if rightly ordered, is perfect.
[BOOK IV] [5302] That is most certain.
[BOOK IV] [5304] And being perfect, is therefore wise and valiant and temperate and just.
[BOOK IV] [5306] That is likewise clear.
[BOOK IV] [5308] And whichever of these qualities we find in the State, the one which is not
[BOOK IV] [5320] And is not a similar method to be pursued about the virtues, which are also
[BOOK IV] [5328] What is that?
[BOOK IV] [5330] The State which we have been describing is said to be wise as being good in
[BOOK IV] [5335] And good counsel is clearly a kind of knowledge, for not by ignorance, but
[BOOK IV] [5344] There is the knowledge of the carpenter; but is that the sort of knowledge
[BOOK IV] [5350] Then a city is not to be called wise because possessing a knowledge which
[BOOK IV] [5365] Well, I said, and is there any knowledge in our recently-founded State
[BOOK IV] [5370] There certainly is.
[BOOK IV] [5372] And what is this knowledge, and among whom is it found? I asked.
[BOOK IV] [5374] It is the knowledge of the guardians, he replied, and is found among those
[BOOK IV] [5377] And what is the name which the city derives from the possession of this
[BOOK IV] [5404] Again, I said, there is no difficulty in seeing the nature of courage, and
[BOOK IV] [5425] and this is what you term courage.
[BOOK IV] [5430] I mean that courage is a kind of salvation.
[BOOK IV] [5446] whatever is dyed in this manner becomes a fast colour, and no washing
[BOOK IV] [5448] ground has not been duly prepared, you will have noticed how poor is the
[BOOK IV] [5466] your opinion, is not the courage which the law ordains, and ought to have
[BOOK IV] [5481] then justice which is the end of our search.
[BOOK IV] [5502] Temperance, I replied, is the ordering or controlling of certain pleasures
[BOOK IV] [5503] and desires; this is curiously enough implied in the saying of 'a man being
[BOOK IV] [5509] There is something ridiculous in the expression 'master of himself;' for
[BOOK IV] [5510] the master is also the servant and the servant the master; and in all these
[BOOK IV] [5511] modes of speaking the same person is denoted.
[BOOK IV] [5515] The meaning is, I believe, that in the human soul there is a better and
[BOOK IV] [5517] then a man is said to be master of himself; and this is a term of praise:
[BOOK IV] [5519] which is also the smaller, is overwhelmed by the greater mass of the worse
[BOOK IV] [5520] --in this case he is blamed and is called the slave of self and
[BOOK IV] [5523] Yes, there is reason in that.
[BOOK IV] [5531] Yes, he said, I see that what you say is true.
[BOOK IV] [5576] Why, because temperance is unlike courage and wisdom, each of which resides
[BOOK IV] [5591] The inference is obvious.
[BOOK IV] [5595] sight and escape us; for beyond a doubt she is somewhere in this country:
[BOOK IV] [5600] just eyes enough to see what you show him--that is about as much as I am
[BOOK IV] [5607] Here is no path, I said, and the wood is dark and perplexing; still we must
[BOOK IV] [5638] his nature was best adapted;--now justice is this principle or a part of
[BOOK IV] [5654] Because I think that this is the only virtue which remains in the State
[BOOK IV] [5656] and, that this is the ultimate cause and condition of the existence of all
[BOOK IV] [5657] of them, and while remaining in them is also their preservative; and we
[BOOK IV] [5668] and which is found in children and women, slave and freeman, artisan,
[BOOK IV] [5670] not being a busybody, would claim the palm--the question is not so easily
[BOOK IV] [5680] And the virtue which enters into this competition is justice?
[BOOK IV] [5691] what is another's, nor be deprived of what is his own?
[BOOK IV] [5693] Yes; that is their principle.
[BOOK IV] [5695] Which is a just principle?
[BOOK IV] [5700] what is a man's own, and belongs to him?
[BOOK IV] [5716] he is unfitted, and either to take the implements or the duties of the
[BOOK IV] [5717] other; or when one man is trader, legislator, and warrior all in one, then
[BOOK IV] [5719] meddling of one with another is the ruin of the State.
[BOOK IV] [5724] one with another, or the change of one into another, is the greatest harm
[BOOK IV] [5734] This then is injustice; and on the other hand when the trader, the
[BOOK IV] [5735] auxiliary, and the guardian each do their own business, that is justice,
[BOOK IV] [5753] light in which justice will shine forth, and the vision which is then
[BOOK IV] [5777] rightly described in the same terms, because he is affected in the same
[BOOK IV] [5785] An easy question! Nay, rather, Socrates, the proverb holds that hard is
[BOOK IV] [5789] employing is at all adequate to the accurate solution of this question; the
[BOOK IV] [5790] true method is another and a longer one. Still we may arrive at a solution
[BOOK IV] [5804] this quality, when found in States, is not derived from the individuals who
[BOOK IV] [5807] which is the special characteristic of our part of the world, or of the
[BOOK IV] [5813] There is no difficulty in understanding this.
[BOOK IV] [5817] But the question is not quite so easy when we proceed to ask whether these
[BOOK IV] [5818] principles are three or one; whether, that is to say, we learn with one
[BOOK IV] [5821] into play in each sort of action--to determine that is the difficulty.
[BOOK IV] [5843] should hereafter fall out by the way. Imagine the case of a man who is
[BOOK IV] [5845] say that one and the same person is in motion and at rest at the same
[BOOK IV] [5847] that one part of him is in motion while another is at rest.
[BOOK IV] [5858] the axis stands still, for there is no deviation from the perpendicular;
[BOOK IV] [5863] That is the correct mode of describing them, he replied.
[BOOK IV] [5888] is seeking after the object of his desire; or that he is drawing to himself
[BOOK IV] [5908] The object of one is food, and of the other drink?
[BOOK IV] [5912] And here comes the point: is not thirst the desire which the soul has of
[BOOK IV] [5916] is of cold drink; or, if accompanied by cold, then of warm drink; or, if
[BOOK IV] [5917] the thirst be excessive, then the drink which is desired will be excessive;
[BOOK IV] [5919] pure and simple will desire drink pure and simple, which is the natural
[BOOK IV] [5920] satisfaction of thirst, as food is of hunger?
[BOOK IV] [5922] Yes, he said; the simple desire is, as you say, in every case of the simple
[BOOK IV] [5927] drink, or food only, but good food; for good is the universal object of
[BOOK IV] [5929] drink; and the same is true of every other desire.
[BOOK IV] [5939] Well, you know of course that the greater is relative to the less?
[BOOK IV] [5947] And the sometime greater to the sometime less, and the greater that is to
[BOOK IV] [5948] be to the less that is to be?
[BOOK IV] [5954] slower; and of hot and cold, and of any other relatives;--is not this true
[BOOK IV] [5960] science is knowledge (assuming that to be the true definition), but the
[BOOK IV] [5961] object of a particular science is a particular kind of knowledge; I mean,
[BOOK IV] [5962] for example, that the science of house-building is a kind of knowledge
[BOOK IV] [5963] which is defined and distinguished from other kinds and is therefore termed
[BOOK IV] [5973] kind; and this is true of the other arts and sciences?
[BOOK IV] [5979] of a relation is taken alone, the other is taken alone; if one term is
[BOOK IV] [5980] qualified, the other is also qualified. I do not mean to say that
[BOOK IV] [5981] relatives may not be disparate, or that the science of health is healthy,
[BOOK IV] [5983] are therefore good and evil; but only that, when the term science is no
[BOOK IV] [5984] longer used absolutely, but has a qualified object which in this case is
[BOOK IV] [5985] the nature of health and disease, it becomes defined, and is hence called
[BOOK IV] [5990] Would you not say that thirst is one of these essentially relative terms,
[BOOK IV] [5993] Yes, thirst is relative to drink.
[BOOK IV] [5995] And a certain kind of thirst is relative to a certain kind of drink; but
[BOOK IV] [5996] thirst taken alone is neither of much nor little, nor of good nor bad, nor
[BOOK IV] [6001] Then the soul of the thirsty one, in so far as he is thirsty, desires only
[BOOK IV] [6004] That is plain.
[BOOK IV] [6014] at the same time, but what you say is that one hand pushes and the other
[BOOK IV] [6023] And in such a case what is one to say? Would you not say that there was
[BOOK IV] [6025] him, which is other and stronger than the principle which bids him?
[BOOK IV] [6029] And the forbidding principle is derived from reason, and that which bids
[BOOK IV] [6043] soul. And what of passion, or spirit? Is it a third, or akin to one of
[BOOK IV] [6048] Well, I said, there is a story which I remember to have heard, and in which
[BOOK IV] [6049] I put faith. The story is, that Leontius, the son of Aglaion, coming up
[BOOK IV] [6059] The moral of the tale is, that anger at times goes to war with desire, as
[BOOK IV] [6062] Yes; that is the meaning, he said.
[BOOK IV] [6065] desires violently prevail over his reason, he reviles himself, and is angry
[BOOK IV] [6066] at the violence within him, and that in this struggle, which is like the
[BOOK IV] [6067] struggle of factions in a State, his spirit is on the side of his reason;--
[BOOK IV] [6069] when reason decides that she should not be opposed, is a sort of thing
[BOOK IV] [6075] Suppose that a man thinks he has done a wrong to another, the nobler he is
[BOOK IV] [6076] the less able is he to feel indignant at any suffering, such as hunger, or
[BOOK IV] [6083] But when he thinks that he is the sufferer of the wrong, then he boils and
[BOOK IV] [6084] chafes, and is on the side of what he believes to be justice; and because
[BOOK IV] [6085] he suffers hunger or cold or other pain he is only the more determined to
[BOOK IV] [6087] either slays or is slain; or until he hears the voice of the shepherd, that
[BOOK IV] [6088] is, reason, bidding his dog bark no more.
[BOOK IV] [6090] The illustration is perfect, he replied; and in our State, as we were
[BOOK IV] [6094] I perceive, I said, that you quite understand me; there is, however, a
[BOOK IV] [6101] the soul spirit is arrayed on the side of the rational principle.
[BOOK IV] [6105] But a further question arises: Is passion different from reason also, or
[BOOK IV] [6110] which is passion or spirit, and when not corrupted by bad education is the
[BOOK IV] [6118] But that is easily proved:--We may observe even in young children that they
[BOOK IV] [6123] is a further proof of the truth of what you are saying. And we may once
[BOOK IV] [6129] the better and worse to be different from the unreasoning anger which is
[BOOK IV] [6140] Must we not then infer that the individual is wise in the same way, and in
[BOOK IV] [6152] which the State is just?
[BOOK IV] [6166] And ought not the rational principle, which is wise, and has the care of
[BOOK IV] [6181] is the largest part of the soul and by nature most insatiable of gain; over
[BOOK IV] [6196] And he is to be deemed courageous whose spirit retains in pleasure and in
[BOOK IV] [6203] of what is for the interest of each of the three parts and of the whole?
[BOOK IV] [6207] And would you not say that he is temperate who has these same elements in
[BOOK IV] [6212] Certainly, he said, that is the true account of temperance whether in the
[BOOK IV] [6218] That is very certain.
[BOOK IV] [6220] And is justice dimmer in the individual, and is her form different, or is
[BOOK IV] [6223] There is no difference in my opinion, he said.
[BOOK IV] [6225] Because, if any doubt is still lingering in our minds, a few commonplace
[BOOK IV] [6230] If the case is put to us, must we not admit that the just State, or the man
[BOOK IV] [6231] who is trained in the principles of such a State, will be less likely than
[BOOK IV] [6251] And the reason is that each part of him is doing its own business, whether
[BOOK IV] [6257] states is justice, or do you hope to discover some other?
[BOOK IV] [6274] however, not with the outward man, but with the inward, which is the true
[BOOK IV] [6277] work of others,--he sets in order his own inner life, and is his own master
[BOOK IV] [6281] he has bound all these together, and is no longer many, but has become one
[BOOK IV] [6309] against the whole, an assertion of unlawful authority, which is made by a
[BOOK IV] [6310] rebellious subject against a true prince, of whom he is the natural
[BOOK IV] [6311] vassal,--what is all this confusion and delusion but injustice, and
[BOOK IV] [6327] Why, I said, that which is healthy causes health, and that which is
[BOOK IV] [6334] That is certain.
[BOOK IV] [6336] And the creation of health is the institution of a natural order and
[BOOK IV] [6338] disease is the production of a state of things at variance with this
[BOOK IV] [6343] And is not the creation of justice the institution of a natural order and
[BOOK IV] [6350] Then virtue is the health and beauty and well-being of the soul, and vice
[BOOK IV] [6360] injustice has not been answered: Which is the more profitable, to be just
[BOOK IV] [6365] that, when the bodily constitution is gone, life is no longer endurable,
[BOOK IV] [6368] principle is undermined and corrupted, life is still worth having to a man,
[BOOK IV] [6370] that he is not to acquire justice and virtue, or to escape from injustice
[BOOK IV] [6373] Yes, I said, the question is, as you say, ridiculous. Still, as we are
[BOOK IV] [6385] some tower of speculation, a man may look down and see that virtue is one,
[BOOK IV] [6400] The first, I said, is that which we have been describing, and which may be
[BOOK IV] [6401] said to have two names, monarchy and aristocracy, accordingly as rule is
[BOOK IV] [6407] government is in the hands of one or many, if the governors have been
[BOOK IV] [6411] That is true, he replied.
[BOOK V] [6416] Such is the good and true City or State, and the good and true man is of
[BOOK V] [6417] the same pattern; and if this is right every other is wrong; and the evil
[BOOK V] [6418] is one which affects not only the ordering of the State, but also the
[BOOK V] [6419] regulation of the individual soul, and is exhibited in four forms.
[BOOK V] [6433] Who is it, I said, whom you are refusing to let off?
[BOOK V] [6440] whole chapter which is a very important part of the story; and you fancy
[BOOK V] [6447] Yes, he said; but what is right in this particular case, like everything
[BOOK V] [6452] when they have arrived, and, in general, what is the nature of this
[BOOK V] [6455] on the State for good or for evil. And now, since the question is still
[BOOK V] [6477] Yes, Socrates, said Glaucon, and the whole of life is the only limit which
[BOOK V] [6480] of community of women and children is this which is to prevail among our
[BOOK V] [6485] Yes, my simple friend, but the answer is the reverse of easy; many more
[BOOK V] [6487] practicability of what is said may be doubted; and looked at in another
[BOOK V] [6489] best, is also doubtful. Hence I feel a reluctance to approach the subject,
[BOOK V] [6505] you are yourself only a hesitating enquirer, which is my condition, is a
[BOOK V] [6506] dangerous and slippery thing; and the danger is not that I shall be laughed
[BOOK V] [6511] homicide is a less crime than to be a deceiver about beauty or goodness or
[BOOK V] [6512] justice in the matter of laws. And that is a risk which I would rather run
[BOOK V] [6521] Well, I said, the law says that when a man is acquitted he is free from
[BOOK V] [6534] children is to follow the path on which we originally started, when we said
[BOOK V] [6550] is labour enough for them?
[BOOK V] [6552] No, he said, they share alike; the only difference between them is that the
[BOOK V] [6572] That is the inference, I suppose.
[BOOK V] [6599] which is still generally received among the barbarians, that the sight of a
[BOOK V] [6615] First, then, whether the question is to be put in jest or in earnest, let
[BOOK V] [6616] us come to an understanding about the nature of woman: Is she capable of
[BOOK V] [6618] And is the art of war one of those arts in which she can or can not share?
[BOOK V] [6642] That is not an easy question to answer when asked suddenly; and I shall and
[BOOK V] [6649] By Zeus, he said, the problem to be solved is anything but easy.
[BOOK V] [6651] Why yes, I said, but the fact is that when a man is out of his depth,
[BOOK V] [6665] --that different natures ought to have the same pursuits,--this is the
[BOOK V] [6666] inconsistency which is charged upon us.
[BOOK V] [6670] Verily, Glaucon, I said, glorious is the power of the art of contradiction!
[BOOK V] [6675] When he thinks that he is reasoning he is really disputing, just because he
[BOOK V] [6676] cannot define and divide, and so know that of which he is speaking; and he
[BOOK V] [6680] Yes, he replied, such is very often the case; but what has that to do with
[BOOK V] [6683] A great deal; for there is certainly a danger of our getting
[BOOK V] [6697] whether there is not an opposition in nature between bald men and hairy
[BOOK V] [6698] men; and if this is admitted by us, then, if bald men are cobblers, we
[BOOK V] [6706] which the individual is engaged; we should have argued, for example, that a
[BOOK V] [6707] physician and one who is in mind a physician may be said to have the same
[BOOK V] [6732] on the instant is not easy; but after a little reflection there is no
[BOOK V] [6738] we may hope to show him that there is nothing peculiar in the constitution
[BOOK V] [6748] again, did you mean, that the one has a body which is a good servant to his
[BOOK V] [6749] mind, while the body of the other is a hindrance to him?--would not these
[BOOK V] [6751] the one who is ungifted?
[BOOK V] [6759] and in which for her to be beaten by a man is of all things the most
[BOOK V] [6764] men, yet on the whole what you say is true.
[BOOK V] [6766] And if so, my friend, I said, there is no special faculty of administration
[BOOK V] [6767] in a state which a woman has because she is a woman, or which a man has by
[BOOK V] [6770] woman is inferior to a man.
[BOOK V] [6778] One woman has a gift of healing, another not; one is a musician, and
[BOOK V] [6784] is unwarlike and hates gymnastics?
[BOOK V] [6788] And one woman is a philosopher, and another is an enemy of philosophy; one
[BOOK V] [6789] has spirit, and another is without spirit?
[BOOK V] [6791] That is also true.
[BOOK V] [6814] Then, as we were saying before, there is nothing unnatural in assigning
[BOOK V] [6822] at present, is in reality a violation of nature.
[BOOK V] [6840] will make a woman a good guardian; for their original nature is the same?
[BOOK V] [6846] What is it?
[BOOK V] [6848] Would you say that all men are equal in excellence, or is one man better
[BOOK V] [6873] And this is what the arts of music and gymnastic, when present in such
[BOOK V] [6888] exercising their bodies from the best of motives, in his laughter he is
[BOOK V] [6893] and he himself is ignorant of what he is laughing at, or what he is about;
[BOOK V] [6894] --for that is, and ever will be, the best of sayings, That the useful is
[BOOK V] [6895] the noble and the hurtful is the base.
[BOOK V] [6899] Here, then, is one difficulty in our law about women, which we may say that
[BOOK V] [6907] Yes, I said, but a greater is coming; you will not think much of this when
[BOOK V] [6912] The law, I said, which is the sequel of this and of all that has preceded,
[BOOK V] [6913] is to the following effect,--'that the wives of our guardians are to be
[BOOK V] [6914] common, and their children are to be common, and no parent is to know his
[BOOK V] [6917] Yes, he said, that is a much greater wave than the other; and the
[BOOK V] [6921] utility of having wives and children in common; the possibility is quite
[BOOK V] [6930] But that little attempt is detected, and therefore you will please to give
[BOOK V] [6936] means of effecting their wishes--that is a matter which never troubles
[BOOK V] [6938] possibilities; but assuming that what they desire is already granted to
[BOOK V] [6940] to do when their wish has come true--that is a way which they have of not
[BOOK V] [6959] That is right, he said.
[BOOK V] [6967] natures to have intercourse with each other--necessity is not too strong a
[BOOK V] [6971] which lovers know, and which is far more convincing and constraining to the
[BOOK V] [6975] orderly fashion; in a city of the blessed, licentiousness is an unholy
[BOOK V] [6981] degree, and what is most beneficial will be deemed sacred?
[BOOK V] [6985] And how can marriages be made most beneficial?--that is a question which I
[BOOK V] [7024] practitioner is deemed to be good enough; but when medicine has to be
[BOOK V] [7027] That is quite true, he said; but to what are you alluding?
[BOOK V] [7044] offspring of the one sort of union, but not of the other, if the flock is
[BOOK V] [7053] hymeneal songs composed by our poets: the number of weddings is a matter
[BOOK V] [7057] similar agencies, in order as far as this is possible to prevent the State
[BOOK V] [7086] Yes, he said, that must be done if the breed of the guardians is to be kept
[BOOK V] [7105] And what is the prime of life? May it not be defined as a period of about
[BOOK V] [7120] child of which he is the father, if it steals into life, will have been
[BOOK V] [7131] sanction of the rulers; for we shall say that he is raising up a bastard to
[BOOK V] [7147] That also, he said, is a reasonable proposition. But how will they know
[BOOK V] [7158] inter-marry. This, however, is not to be understood as an absolute
[BOOK V] [7165] Such is the scheme, Glaucon, according to which the guardians of our State
[BOOK V] [7167] argument show that this community is consistent with the rest of our
[BOOK V] [7174] State,--what is the greatest good, and what is the greatest evil, and then
[BOOK V] [7185] And there is unity where there is community of pleasures and pains--where
[BOOK V] [7191] Yes; and where there is no common but only private feeling a State is
[BOOK V] [7202] And is not that the best-ordered State in which the greatest number of
[BOOK V] [7209] individual--as in the body, when but a finger of one of us is hurt, the
[BOOK V] [7213] and the same expression is used about any other part of the body, which has
[BOOK V] [7218] there is the nearest approach to this common feeling which you describe.
[BOOK V] [7224] Yes, he said, that is what will happen in a well-ordered State.
[BOOK V] [7227] this or some other form is most in accordance with these fundamental
[BOOK V] [7240] But is there not another name which people give to their rulers in other
[BOOK V] [7290] law commands; and is the violator of these duties to be regarded as an
[BOOK V] [7291] impious and unrighteous person who is not likely to receive much good
[BOOK V] [7302] heard than in any other. As I was describing before, when any one is well
[BOOK V] [7303] or ill, the universal word will be 'with me it is well' or 'it is ill.'
[BOOK V] [7330] Then the community of wives and children among our citizens is clearly the
[BOOK V] [7349] they are all of one opinion about what is near and dear to them, and
[BOOK V] [7366] That is good, he said.
[BOOK V] [7368] Yes; and there is a further good in the law; viz. that if a man has a
[BOOK V] [7386] That is true, he replied.
[BOOK V] [7415] The Olympic victor, I said, is deemed happy in receiving a part only of the
[BOOK V] [7416] blessedness which is secured to our citizens, who have won a more glorious
[BOOK V] [7418] victory which they have won is the salvation of the whole State; and the
[BOOK V] [7419] crown with which they and their children are crowned is the fulness of all
[BOOK V] [7435] And what do you say, now that the life of our protectors is made out to be
[BOOK V] [7436] far better and nobler than that of Olympic victors--is the life of
[BOOK V] [7444] cease to be a guardian, and is not content with this safe and harmonious
[BOOK V] [7445] life, which, in our judgment, is of all lives the best, but infatuated by
[BOOK V] [7448] wisely Hesiod spoke, when he said, 'half is more than the whole.'
[BOOK V] [7458] share with the men? And in so doing they will do what is best, and will
[BOOK V] [7469] There is no difficulty, I said, in seeing how war will be carried on by
[BOOK V] [7488] The idea is ridiculous, he said.
[BOOK V] [7490] There is also the effect on the parents, with whom, as with other animals,
[BOOK V] [7493] That is quite true, Socrates; and yet if they are defeated, which may often
[BOOK V] [7494] happen in war, how great the danger is! the children will be lost as well
[BOOK V] [7507] is a very important matter, for the sake of which some risk may fairly be
[BOOK V] [7534] Still, the dangers of war cannot be always foreseen; there is a good deal
[BOOK V] [7548] what is hereafter to be their own business; and if there is danger they
[BOOK V] [7555] soldier who leaves his rank or throws away his arms, or is guilty of any
[BOOK V] [7562] present of to his enemies; he is their lawful prey, and let them do what
[BOOK V] [7580] What is your proposal?
[BOOK V] [7589] Capital, I said. That the brave man is to have more wives than others has
[BOOK V] [7590] been already determined: and he is to have first choices in such matters
[BOOK V] [7595] Again, there is another manner in which, according to Homer, brave youths
[BOOK V] [7612] That, he replied, is excellent.
[BOOK V] [7615] first place, that he is of the golden race?
[BOOK V] [7628] heroic personages, and what is to be their special distinction; and we must
[BOOK V] [7638] That is very right, he said.
[BOOK V] [7647] which there is that the whole race may one day fall under the yoke of the
[BOOK V] [7650] To spare them is infinitely better.
[BOOK V] [7652] Then no Hellene should be owned by them as a slave; that is a rule which
[BOOK V] [7666] And is there not illiberality and avarice in robbing a corpse, and also a
[BOOK V] [7669] him,--is not this rather like a dog who cannot get at his assailant,
[BOOK V] [7686] houses, what is to be the practice?
[BOOK V] [7695] Why, you see, there is a difference in the names 'discord' and 'war,' and I
[BOOK V] [7696] imagine that there is also a difference in their natures; the one is
[BOOK V] [7697] expressive of what is internal and domestic, the other of what is external
[BOOK V] [7698] and foreign; and the first of the two is termed discord, and only the
[BOOK V] [7701] That is a very proper distinction, he replied.
[BOOK V] [7703] And may I not observe with equal propriety that the Hellenic race is all
[BOOK V] [7712] when Hellenes fight with one another we shall say that Hellas is then in a
[BOOK V] [7714] enmity is to be called discord.
[BOOK V] [7719] occurs, and a city is divided, if both parties destroy the lands and burn
[BOOK V] [7726] Yes, he said, that is a better temper than the other.
[BOOK V] [7742] discord only--a quarrel among friends, which is not to be called a war?
[BOOK V] [7758] that the guilt of war is always confined to a few persons and that the many
[BOOK V] [7775] of this discussion you thrust aside:--Is such an order of things possible,
[BOOK V] [7793] seem not to be aware that you are now bringing upon me the third, which is
[BOOK V] [7800] are we that you shall tell us how such a State is possible: speak out and
[BOOK V] [7811] higher degree of justice than is to be found in other men?
[BOOK V] [7834] And is our theory a worse theory because we are unable to prove the
[BOOK V] [7839] That is the truth, I said. But if, at your request, I am to try and show
[BOOK V] [7840] how and under what conditions the possibility is highest, I must ask you,
[BOOK V] [7860] Let me next endeavour to show what is that fault in States which is the
[BOOK V] [7861] cause of their present maladministration, and what is the least change
[BOOK V] [7869] change were made, which is not a slight or easy though still a possible
[BOOK V] [7872] What is it? he said.
[BOOK V] [7888] no other State can there be happiness private or public is indeed a hard
[BOOK V] [7892] you have uttered is one at which numerous persons, and very respectable
[BOOK V] [7903] able to fit answers to your questions better than another--that is all.
[BOOK V] [7908] I think that, if there is to be a chance of our escaping, we must explain
[BOOK V] [7923] lover, if he is worthy of the name, ought to show his love, not to some one
[BOOK V] [7931] thought by him to be worthy of his affectionate regards. Is not this a way
[BOOK V] [7934] he who is neither snub nor hooked has the grace of regularity: the dark
[BOOK V] [7935] visage is manly, the fair are children of the gods; and as to the sweet
[BOOK V] [7936] 'honey pale,' as they are called, what is the very name but the invention
[BOOK V] [7937] of a lover who talks in diminutives, and is not averse to paleness if
[BOOK V] [7938] appearing on the cheek of youth? In a word, there is no excuse which you
[BOOK V] [7950] And the same is true of ambitious men; if they cannot command an army, they
[BOOK V] [7962] And may we not say of the philosopher that he is a lover, not of a part of
[BOOK V] [7968] judging what is good and what is not, such an one we maintain not to be a
[BOOK V] [7969] philosopher or a lover of knowledge, just as he who refuses his food is not
[BOOK V] [7974] Whereas he who has a taste for every sort of knowledge and who is curious
[BOOK V] [7975] to learn and is never satisfied, may be justly termed a philosopher? Am I
[BOOK V] [7985] the performance is in town or country--that makes no difference--they are
[BOOK V] [7995] That is also good, he said; but I should like to know what you mean?
[BOOK V] [8000] What is the proposition?
[BOOK V] [8002] That since beauty is the opposite of ugliness, they are two?
[BOOK V] [8006] And inasmuch as they are two, each of them is one?
[BOOK V] [8011] remark holds: taken singly, each of them is one; but from the various
[BOOK V] [8017] And this is the distinction which I draw between the sight-loving,
[BOOK V] [8025] made out of them, but their mind is incapable of seeing or loving absolute
[BOOK V] [8035] beauty, or who, if another lead him to a knowledge of that beauty is unable
[BOOK V] [8036] to follow--of such an one I ask, Is he awake or in a dream only? Reflect:
[BOOK V] [8037] is not the dreamer, sleeping or waking, one who likens dissimilar things,
[BOOK V] [8043] beauty and is able to distinguish the idea from the objects which
[BOOK V] [8045] idea nor the idea in the place of the objects--is he a dreamer, or is he
[BOOK V] [8048] He is wide awake.
[BOOK V] [8057] revealing to him that there is sad disorder in his wits?
[BOOK V] [8062] assuring him that he is welcome to any knowledge which he may have, and
[BOOK V] [8069] Something that is or is not?
[BOOK V] [8071] Something that is; for how can that which is not ever be known?
[BOOK V] [8074] that absolute being is or may be absolutely known, but that the utterly
[BOOK V] [8075] non-existent is utterly unknown?
[BOOK V] [8079] Good. But if there be anything which is of such a nature as to be and not
[BOOK V] [8105] And knowledge is relative to being and knows being. But before I proceed
[BOOK V] [8128] that knowledge is a faculty, or in what class would you place it?
[BOOK V] [8130] Certainly knowledge is a faculty, and the mightiest of all faculties.
[BOOK V] [8132] And is opinion also a faculty?
[BOOK V] [8134] Certainly, he said; for opinion is that with which we are able to form an
[BOOK V] [8137] And yet you were acknowledging a little while ago that knowledge is not the
[BOOK V] [8141] is infallible with that which errs?
[BOOK V] [8151] That is certain.
[BOOK V] [8153] Being is the sphere or subject-matter of knowledge, and knowledge is to
[BOOK V] [8158] And opinion is to have an opinion?
[BOOK V] [8162] And do we know what we opine? or is the subject-matter of opinion the same
[BOOK V] [8170] Then if being is the subject-matter of knowledge, something else must be
[BOOK V] [8175] Well then, is not-being the subject-matter of opinion? or, rather, how can
[BOOK V] [8178] which is an opinion about nothing?
[BOOK V] [8186] And not-being is not one thing but, properly speaking, nothing?
[BOOK V] [8195] Then opinion is not concerned either with being or with not-being?
[BOOK V] [8203] But is opinion to be sought without and beyond either of them, in a greater
[BOOK V] [8217] Then you would infer that opinion is intermediate?
[BOOK V] [8222] which is and is not at the same time, that sort of thing would appear also
[BOOK V] [8224] the corresponding faculty is neither knowledge nor ignorance, but will be
[BOOK V] [8234] Then what remains to be discovered is the object which partakes equally of
[BOOK V] [8242] This being premised, I would ask the gentleman who is of opinion that there
[BOOK V] [8243] is no absolute or unchangeable idea of beauty--in whose opinion the
[BOOK V] [8244] beautiful is the manifold--he, I say, your lover of beautiful sights, who
[BOOK V] [8245] cannot bear to be told that the beautiful is one, and the just is one, or
[BOOK V] [8246] that anything is one--to him I would appeal, saying, Will you be so very
[BOOK V] [8247] kind, sir, as to tell us whether, of all these beautiful things, there is
[BOOK V] [8252] the same is true of the rest.
[BOOK V] [8254] And may not the many which are doubles be also halves?--doubles, that is,
[BOOK V] [8278] That is quite true, he said.
[BOOK V] [8282] tossing about in some region which is half-way between pure being and pure
[BOOK V] [8289] knowledge; being the intermediate flux which is caught and detained by the
[BOOK V] [8299] That is certain.
[BOOK V] [8317] I shall tell them not to be angry; no man should be angry at what is true.
[BOOK VI] [8338] And what is the next question? he asked.
[BOOK VI] [8352] Neither, I said, can there be any question that the guardian who is to keep
[BOOK VI] [8383] that such an union of qualities is possible, and that those in whom they
[BOOK VI] [8395] there is no part whether greater or less, or more or less honourable, which
[BOOK VI] [8401] And if they are to be what we were describing, is there not another quality
[BOOK VI] [8407] falsehood, which is their detestation, and they will love the truth.
[BOOK VI] [8411] 'May be,' my friend, I replied, is not the word; say rather 'must be
[BOOK VI] [8412] affirmed:' for he whose nature is amorous of anything cannot help loving
[BOOK VI] [8413] all that belongs or is akin to the object of his affections.
[BOOK VI] [8417] And is there anything more akin to wisdom than truth?
[BOOK VI] [8440] That is most certain.
[BOOK VI] [8442] Such an one is sure to be temperate and the reverse of covetous; for the
[BOOK VI] [8450] What is that?
[BOOK VI] [8453] antagonistic than meanness to a soul which is ever longing after the whole
[BOOK VI] [8458] Then how can he who has magnificence of mind and is the spectator of all
[BOOK VI] [8471] Or again: can he who is harmoniously constituted, who is not covetous or
[BOOK VI] [8477] Then you will soon observe whether a man is just and gentle, or rude and
[BOOK VI] [8483] There is another point which should be remarked.
[BOOK VI] [8493] And again, if he is forgetful and retains nothing of what he learns, will
[BOOK VI] [8496] That is certain.
[BOOK VI] [8522] together, and are they not, in a manner, necessary to a soul, which is to
[BOOK VI] [8528] gift of a good memory, and is quick to learn,--noble, gracious, the friend
[BOOK VI] [8547] and yet all the time they are in the right. The observation is suggested
[BOOK VI] [8548] to me by what is now occurring. For any one of us might say, that although
[BOOK VI] [8549] in words he is not able to meet you at each step of the argument, he sees
[BOOK VI] [8558] I cannot tell, he replied; but I should like to know what is your opinion.
[BOOK VI] [8569] Yes, Socrates; and that is a way of speaking to which you are not at all
[BOOK VI] [8575] which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no
[BOOK VI] [8576] single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead
[BOOK VI] [8579] are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a
[BOOK VI] [8580] captain who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little
[BOOK VI] [8582] is not much better. The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the
[BOOK VI] [8583] steering--every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer, though he
[BOOK VI] [8593] of them. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot
[BOOK VI] [8615] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at
[BOOK VI] [8623] to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their
[BOOK VI] [8626] him--that is not the order of nature; neither are 'the wise to go to the
[BOOK VI] [8628] truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the
[BOOK VI] [8629] physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able
[BOOK VI] [8630] to govern. The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his
[BOOK VI] [8639] pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite
[BOOK VI] [8640] faction; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by
[BOOK VI] [8651] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also
[BOOK VI] [8652] unavoidable, and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy
[BOOK VI] [8664] Well, and is not this one quality, to mention no others, greatly at
[BOOK VI] [8670] knowledge is always striving after being--that is his nature; he will not
[BOOK VI] [8671] rest in the multiplicity of individuals which is an appearance only, but
[BOOK VI] [8686] And when truth is the captain, we cannot suspect any evil of the band which
[BOOK VI] [8696] Neither is there any reason why I should again set in array the
[BOOK VI] [8713] who aspire after a profession which is above them and of which they are
[BOOK VI] [8722] philosopher, is a rare plant which is seldom seen among men.
[BOOK VI] [8732] is a most singular circumstance) destroys and distracts from philosophy the
[BOOK VI] [8733] soul which is the possessor of them.
[BOOK VI] [8735] That is very singular, he replied.
[BOOK VI] [8753] suitable environment, for evil is a greater enemy to what is good than to
[BOOK VI] [8754] what is not.
[BOOK VI] [8758] There is reason in supposing that the finest natures, when under alien
[BOOK VI] [8759] conditions, receive more injury than the inferior, because the contrast is
[BOOK VI] [8772] And our philosopher follows the same analogy--he is like a plant which,
[BOOK VI] [8782] When is this accomplished? he said.
[BOOK VI] [8786] there is a great uproar, and they praise some things which are being said
[BOOK VI] [8798] And yet, I said, there is a still greater necessity, which has not been
[BOOK VI] [8801] What is that?
[BOOK VI] [8814] No, indeed, I said, even to make the attempt is a great piece of folly;
[BOOK VI] [8815] there neither is, nor has been, nor is ever likely to be, any different
[BOOK VI] [8817] is supplied by public opinion--I speak, my friend, of human virtue only;
[BOOK VI] [8818] what is more than human, as the proverb says, is not included: for I would
[BOOK VI] [8820] whatever is saved and comes to good is saved by the power of God, as we may
[BOOK VI] [8831] opinion of the many, that is to say, the opinions of their assemblies; and
[BOOK VI] [8832] this is their wisdom. I might compare them to a man who should study the
[BOOK VI] [8833] tempers and desires of a mighty strong beast who is fed by him--he would
[BOOK VI] [8835] causes he is dangerous or the reverse, and what is the meaning of his
[BOOK VI] [8836] several cries, and by what sounds, when another utters them, he is soothed
[BOOK VI] [8841] passions of which he is speaking, but calls this honourable and that
[BOOK VI] [8847] others the nature of either, or the difference between them, which is
[BOOK VI] [8852] And in what way does he who thinks that wisdom is the discernment of the
[BOOK VI] [8857] judges when he is not obliged, the so-called necessity of Diomede will
[BOOK VI] [8883] That is evident.
[BOOK VI] [8908] And what will a man such as he is be likely to do under such circumstances,
[BOOK VI] [8917] Now, when he is in this state of mind, if some one gently comes to him and
[BOOK VI] [8918] tells him that he is a fool and must get understanding, which can only be
[BOOK VI] [8925] reasonableness has had his eyes opened a little and is humbled and taken
[BOOK VI] [8934] And how can one who is thus circumstanced ever become a philosopher?
[BOOK VI] [8945] Thus, my excellent friend, is brought about all that ruin and failure which
[BOOK VI] [8953] That is most true, he said.
[BOOK VI] [8955] And so philosophy is left desolate, with her marriage rite incomplete: for
[BOOK VI] [8963] That is certainly what people say.
[BOOK VI] [8971] about her which is not to be found in the arts. And many are thus
[BOOK VI] [8974] crafts. Is not this unavoidable?
[BOOK VI] [8980] and is decked out as a bridegroom going to marry his master's daughter, who
[BOOK VI] [8981] is left poor and desolate?
[BOOK VI] [8991] an alliance with her who is in a rank above them what sort of ideas and
[BOOK VI] [9007] is hardly worth mentioning, for rarely, if ever, has such a monitor been
[BOOK VI] [9009] how sweet and blessed a possession philosophy is, and have also seen enough
[BOOK VI] [9010] of the madness of the multitude; and they know that no politician is
[BOOK VI] [9011] honest, nor is there any champion of justice at whose side they may fight
[BOOK VI] [9014] is he able singly to resist all their fierce natures, and therefore seeing
[BOOK VI] [9017] himself or others, he holds his peace, and goes his own way. He is like
[BOOK VI] [9020] full of wickedness, he is content, if only he can live his own life and be
[BOOK VI] [9027] him; for in a State which is suitable to him, he will have a larger growth
[BOOK VI] [9030] The causes why philosophy is in such an evil name have now been
[BOOK VI] [9032] shown--is there anything more which you wish to say?
[BOOK VI] [9035] of the governments now existing is in your opinion the one adapted to her.
[BOOK VI] [9037] Not any of them, I said; and that is precisely the accusation which I bring
[BOOK VI] [9038] against them--not one of them is worthy of the philosophic nature, and
[BOOK VI] [9039] hence that nature is warped and estranged;--as the exotic seed which is
[BOOK VI] [9040] sown in a foreign land becomes denaturalized, and is wont to be overpowered
[BOOK VI] [9043] philosophy ever finds in the State that perfection which she herself is,
[BOOK VI] [9044] then will be seen that she is in truth divine, and that all other things,
[BOOK VI] [9046] that you are going to ask, What that State is:
[BOOK VI] [9049] whether it is the State of which we are the founders and inventors, or some
[BOOK VI] [9061] difficult; and what still remains is the reverse of easy.
[BOOK VI] [9063] What is there remaining?
[BOOK VI] [9066] ruin of the State: All great attempts are attended with risk; 'hard is the
[BOOK VI] [9086] philosophy is not considered by them to be their proper business: at last,
[BOOK VI] [9099] citizens fails and is past civil and military duties, then let them range
[BOOK VI] [9114] You are speaking of a time which is not very near.
[BOOK VI] [9116] Rather, I replied, of a time which is as nothing in comparison with
[BOOK VI] [9121] unity. But a human being who in word and work is perfectly moulded, as far
[BOOK VI] [9131] coldly on the subtleties of controversy, of which the end is opinion and
[BOOK VI] [9150] foreign clime which is far away and beyond our ken, the perfected
[BOOK VI] [9151] philosopher is or has been or hereafter shall be compelled by a superior
[BOOK VI] [9153] that this our constitution has been, and is--yea, and will be whenever the
[BOOK VI] [9154] Muse of Philosophy is queen. There is no impossibility in all this; that
[BOOK VI] [9155] there is a difficulty, we acknowledge ourselves.
[BOOK VI] [9159] But do you mean to say that this is not the opinion of the multitude?
[BOOK VI] [9168] whom you are speaking is not such as they supposed--if they view him in
[BOOK VI] [9170] another strain. Who can be at enmity with one who loves them, who that is
[BOOK VI] [9171] himself gentle and free from envy will be jealous of one in whom there is
[BOOK VI] [9183] It is most unbecoming.
[BOOK VI] [9185] For he, Adeimantus, whose mind is fixed upon true being, has surely no time
[BOOK VI] [9187] envy, contending against men; his eye is ever directed towards things fixed
[BOOK VI] [9208] And if the world perceives that what we are saying about him is the truth,
[BOOK VI] [9210] them that no State can be happy which is not designed by artists who
[BOOK VI] [9218] This is no easy task. But whether easy or not, herein will lie the
[BOOK VI] [9246] rushing at us with might and main, that the painter of constitutions is
[BOOK VI] [9251] Much calmer, if there is any sense in them.
[BOOK VI] [9254] that the philosopher is a lover of truth and being?
[BOOK VI] [9258] Or that his nature, being such as we have delineated, is akin to the
[BOOK VI] [9288] necessity be destroyed; that they can hardly be saved is not denied even by
[BOOK VI] [9294] But, said I, one is enough; let there be one man who has a city obedient to
[BOOK VI] [9296] the world is so incredulous.
[BOOK VI] [9298] Yes, one is enough.
[BOOK VI] [9305] And that others should approve, of what we approve, is no miracle or
[BOOK VI] [9311] only possible, is assuredly for the best.
[BOOK VI] [9316] for the best, but also that the enactment of them, though difficult, is not
[BOOK VI] [9368] immovable when there is anything to be learned; they are always in a torpid
[BOOK VI] [9374] the higher education is to be imparted, and who are to share in any office
[BOOK VI] [9379] And will they be a class which is rarely found?
[BOOK VI] [9384] pleasures which we mentioned before, but there is another kind of probation
[BOOK VI] [9409] were satisfied or not, it is for you to say.
[BOOK VI] [9415] short of the whole truth is not fair measure; for nothing imperfect is the
[BOOK VI] [9428] highest knowledge of all which, as we were just now saying, is his proper
[BOOK VI] [9431] What, he said, is there a knowledge still higher than this--higher than
[BOOK VI] [9434] Yes, I said, there is. And of the virtues too we must behold not the
[BOOK VI] [9442] you what is this highest knowledge?
[BOOK VI] [9447] that the idea of good is the highest knowledge, and that all other things
[BOOK VI] [9452] that the possession of all other things is of any value if we do not
[BOOK VI] [9459] the finer sort of wits say it is knowledge?
[BOOK VI] [9471] term 'good'--this is of course ridiculous.
[BOOK VI] [9485] question is involved.
[BOOK VI] [9490] be what is just and honourable without the reality; but no one is satisfied
[BOOK VI] [9491] with the appearance of good--the reality is what they seek; in the case of
[BOOK VI] [9492] the good, appearance is despised by every one.
[BOOK VI] [9497] actions, having a presentiment that there is such an end, and yet
[BOOK VI] [9499] of this as of other things, and therefore losing whatever good there is in
[BOOK VI] [9501] in our State, to whom everything is entrusted, to be in the darkness of
[BOOK VI] [9508] no one who is ignorant of the good will have a true knowledge of them.
[BOOK VI] [9510] That, he said, is a shrewd suspicion of yours.
[BOOK VI] [9538] And do you wish to behold what is blind and crooked and base, when others
[BOOK VI] [9548] ridicule upon me. No, sweet sirs, let us not at present ask what is the
[BOOK VI] [9549] actual nature of the good, for to reach what is now in my thoughts would be
[BOOK VI] [9550] an effort too great for me. But of the child of the good who is likest
[BOOK VI] [9570] The old story, that there is a many beautiful and a many good, and so of
[BOOK VI] [9572] is applied.
[BOOK VI] [9576] And there is an absolute beauty and an absolute good, and of other things
[BOOK VI] [9577] to which the term 'many' is applied there is an absolute; for they may be
[BOOK VI] [9578] brought under a single idea, which is called the essence of each.
[BOOK VI] [9587] And what is the organ with which we see the visible things?
[BOOK VI] [9596] But have you remarked that sight is by far the most costly and complex
[BOOK VI] [9606] No, indeed, I replied; and the same is true of most, if not all, the other
[BOOK VI] [9611] But you see that without the addition of some other nature there is no
[BOOK VI] [9627] Noble, then, is the bond which links together sight and visibility, and
[BOOK VI] [9628] great beyond other bonds by no small difference of nature; for light is
[BOOK VI] [9629] their bond, and light is no ignoble thing?
[BOOK VI] [9634] element? Whose is that light which makes the eye to see perfectly and the
[BOOK VI] [9643] Neither sight nor the eye in which sight resides is the sun?
[BOOK VI] [9647] Yet of all the organs of sense the eye is the most like the sun?
[BOOK VI] [9651] And the power which the eye possesses is a sort of effluence which is
[BOOK VI] [9656] Then the sun is not sight, but the author of sight who i